ESA. What's the point when they don't read the flamin form!

dazza-mac

Hi,
Panic! I've just received my letter from the DWP and I've been placed in the WRAG group. I beleive I should be in the Support Group and can't work it out and don't have a clue about what to do first.

It seems obvious to me that they don't read the ESA50 thoroughly, and whilst I realise that you could have a million health problems, be in agony and still not qualify for the Support Group - the reason I'm so shocked is because I should fit one of the descripters regarding walking/distance etc.

My War Pension/Mobility is for that very problem! Is there any point in appealing, I mean what are these people doing. I spent so long on my ESA50, left nothing out, it was typed so clear and easy to read and I get that decision.

I know there are people out there who are in a worse situation as they've been found fit for work - I know I have a year in the WRAG group. But my main concern is that after the year the ESA will stop and I'm terrified of being unable to hold down a job. I can barely manage my housework and won't even let anyone in my house because of the state of it. I just don't know which way is up at the minute.

My friend has got a job that is too much for her and she looks ill! I can't cope with my health as it is and the thought of the future just seems so bleak. I'm writing this just after getting the letter so sorry if it sounds really whiney and panicky

Cpt.Scarlet

The ESA test is for mobilising not walking. The test includes you ability to propel a manual wheelchair over an equivalent distance, and is irrelevent of whether you use or even own one, just whether it would be reasonable for you to use one, so if you have no upper body issues, you will not qualify for the SG on this descriptor.

dazza-mac

Cpt.Scarlet wrote: »

The ESA test is for mobilising not walking. The test includes you ability to propel a manual wheelchair over an equivalent distance, and is irrelevent of whether you use or even own one, just whether it would be reasonable for you to use one, so if you have no upper body issues, you will not qualify for the SG on this descriptor.

I don't understand what that means. This is what I read in the descripters:

a. Mobilise more than 50 metres on level ground without stopping in order to avoid
significant discomfort or exhaustion; or
b. Repeatedly mobilise 50 metres within a reasonable timescale because of significant

discomfort or exhaustion.

and that's my point. I have to stop because of the pain. That was the reason I was awarded the warpension/mobility.

I've just been to the jobcentre to state I wish to appeal. Although the lady was pleasant on the phone - all she said was that she'd noted down that I wish to appeal and almost ended the conversation. It was only when I piped up and asked for a statement of reasons. She then noted it.

I then said that I'd like a reconsideration to which she said that I could ask for a reconsideration or an appeal. I pointed out that my letter stated I could ask for both. She didn't seem to know this, else they're told to withold information.

Again, she almost ended the call until I then asked for a copy of 'esa85A' and 'esa113' - she didn't know what the esa113 was. I asked if I had the correct department and was dreading being on hold again listening to Vivaldi for another eon - but she said I was through to the right dept! Surely they should be aware of all the relevant forms and paperwork?!

It was noisy in the building but could you tell me if I heard right when she said that I would have to start sending in sick notes and that my money would drop? I thought that during the appeal I would still be in the WRAG group. I've not sent in sick notes for years...

schrodie

With respect to the mobilising descriptor what the ESA50 from says is not what happens in reality. On the ESA50 form it says "if you usually use one" however what Atos do with the governments blessing is decide even if you don't use a wheelchair whether you could use one.

So you may not be able to walk 50m for whatever reasons but you may be able to mobilise yourself 50m in a wheelchair!

Sneeky eh!!

Edit. Sadly if you expect the staff at the JCP to know the rules and regs surrounding ESA is I'm afraid you're going to be mightily disappointed. You'll find far better help on these and other disability forums. It does help however to be well armed when you deal with JCP staff, helpfullness and understanding isn't one of their strong points.

fedupconsumer

dazza-mac wrote: »

I don't understand what that means. This is what I read in the descripters:

a. Mobilise more than 50 metres on level ground without stopping in order to avoid
significant discomfort or exhaustion; or
b. Repeatedly mobilise 50 metres within a reasonable timescale because of significant

discomfort or exhaustion.

I have to stop because of the pain. That was the reason I was awarded the warpension/mobility.

Check the ESA Handbook for the full information regarding the support group in this area:

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/wca-handbook.pdf

good luck

schrodie

From Page 26 of the above Handbook:-

"In this activity, the HCP should consider whether a person could potentially use a wheelchair regardless of whether or not they have ever used a wheelchair. In considering this issue, as above, upper limb function and cardiorespiratory status must be taken into account."

Ergo to get into the Support Group via the Mobilising descriptor you have to show that not only can you not walk at least 50m but also can't use a wheelchair to cover the same distance!

Cpt.Scarlet

dazza-mac wrote: »

I don't understand what that means. This is what I read in the descripters:

a. Mobilise more than 50 metres on level ground without stopping in order to avoid
significant discomfort or exhaustion; or
b. Repeatedly mobilise 50 metres within a reasonable timescale because of significant

discomfort or exhaustion.

and that's my point. I have to stop because of the pain. That was the reason I was awarded the warpension/mobility.

I've just been to the jobcentre to state I wish to appeal. Although the lady was pleasant on the phone - all she said was that she'd noted down that I wish to appeal and almost ended the conversation. It was only when I piped up and asked for a statement of reasons. She then noted it.

I then said that I'd like a reconsideration to which she said that I could ask for a reconsideration or an appeal. I pointed out that my letter stated I could ask for both. She didn't seem to know this, else they're told to withold information.

Again, she almost ended the call until I then asked for a copy of 'esa85A' and 'esa113' - she didn't know what the esa113 was. I asked if I had the correct department and was dreading being on hold again listening to Vivaldi for another eon - but she said I was through to the right dept! Surely they should be aware of all the relevant forms and paperwork?!

It was noisy in the building but could you tell me if I heard right when she said that I would have to start sending in sick notes and that my money would drop? I thought that during the appeal I would still be in the WRAG group. I've not sent in sick notes for years...

Unfortunately you have cherry picked the info from the ESA descriptor.

1. Mobilising unaided by another person with or without a walking stick, manual wheelchair or other aid if such aid can reasonably be used.
(a) Cannot either:
(i) mobilise more than 50 metres on levelground without stopping in order to avoid significant discomfort or exhaustion; or
(ii) repeatedly mobilise 50 metres within a reasonable timescale because of significant discomfort or exhaustion.
　

You should appeal the decision, rather than asking for a reconsideration, an appeal includes a reconsideration anyway.

Appeals must be made in writing and ideally on a GL24 appeal form, you can download this from DirectGov, just Google it.

Just re-read your original post. As you are in the WRAG, you do not need to provide Fit Notes while you appeal, but you will need to attend WFIs if required, although they may defer them as you are appealing.

There is no point going your local JC+ office they won't be able to help you, you need to speak to your local DWP office that wll have been detailed on any letters that you have received regarding this claim.

schrodie

Cpt.Scarlet wrote: »

Unfortunately you have cherry picked the info from the ESA descriptor.

1. Mobilising unaided by another person with or without a walking stick, manual wheelchair or other aid if such aid can reasonably be used.
(a) Cannot either:
(i) mobilise more than 50 metres on levelground without stopping in order to avoid significant discomfort or exhaustion; or
(ii) repeatedly mobilise 50 metres within a reasonable timescale because of significant discomfort or exhaustion.
　

The wording on the actual ESA50 is very different from the Regulations in that it states:-

1. Moving around and using steps
By moving we mean including the use of aids such as a manual wheelchair, crutches or a walking stick, if you usually use one, but without the help of another person.

No mention of the imaginary wheelchair!!!

I'm suprised this descrepancy hasn't been picked up and addressed by the disability organisations, not that it would do any good but at least they may get a reason why the regulations say one thing and the ESA50 something different!

rogerblack

The ESA50 is unfortunately badly worded, and misleads in significant ways.

In general, if you think a question may vaguely apply to you, even if it seems not to really, you should consider ticking 'it varies' - and give more information.

Ellejmorgan

I'm in the WRAG too, I am assessed every 6 months, there is no chance of recovery yet they still insist on assessment..

Just to make you aware this is becoming standard for lots of people, it was 12 months initially now this..

Parva

rogerblack wrote: »

The ESA50 is unfortunately badly worded, and misleads in significant ways.

In general, if you think a question may vaguely apply to you, even if it seems not to really, you should consider ticking 'it varies' - and give more information.

Just to add further to this, I too was placed in the WRAG group without a face-to-face assessment because I stupidly ticked the 'it varies' box on each of the three main assessment criteria (along with an explanation for each). The fact is that I will always fail at least one of the main three tests on any given day but because I ticked 'it varies' on all three I was passed for WRAG.

It's not worth the worry, I await the day that I am called in and they'll see for themselves how things are. Really, don't stress over it (and don't let Andy try to tell you otherwise).