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Planning for death - forum discussion

edited 16 October 2012 at 1:44PM in Deaths, Funerals & Probate
105 replies 37.8K views
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  • VfM4meplseVfM4meplse
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    So why isn't the money more useful?
    I can express a wish whilst I'm still alive. The final recipient may decide when they inherit.
    Value-for-money-for-me-puhleeze!

    "No man is worth, crawling on the earth"- adapted from Bob Crewe and Bob Gaudio

    Hope is not a strategy :D...A child is for life, not just 18 years....Don't get me started on the NHS, because you won't win...I love chaz-ing!
  • BigglesBiggles Forumite
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    VfM4meplse wrote: »
    I can express a wish whilst I'm still alive. The final recipient may decide when they inherit.
    Not if there's a stipulation that 'they can't sell it'. Though I'm not sure that's enforceable anyway.
  • VfM4meplseVfM4meplse
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    Biggles wrote: »
    Not if there's a stipulation that 'they can't sell it'. Though I'm not sure that's enforceable anyway.
    Its not a stipulation for the eventual beneficiary.

    It's my choice, I don't see why others are getting so exercised about it.
    Value-for-money-for-me-puhleeze!

    "No man is worth, crawling on the earth"- adapted from Bob Crewe and Bob Gaudio

    Hope is not a strategy :D...A child is for life, not just 18 years....Don't get me started on the NHS, because you won't win...I love chaz-ing!
  • securityguysecurityguy Forumite
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    "Eventual" beneficiary implies there are people on the route from you living in house to "eventual" beneficiary.

    I have some relatives whose mother set up some complex scheme to "protect" the "family" house. Her children are mostly no longer speaking, because they ended up being expected to insure and maintain a house far from where they live that they had no interest in living in, which would eventually pass to the children of one of them. They fell out over the fact that none of them could really afford it, particularly the father of the eventual beneficiaries, and the other siblings were not prepared to spend time and money they didn't have maintaining a house for someone else's children to inherit.

    Last I heard they had simply walked away. The "eventual" recipients are unhappy that they will inherit a ruin that will probably have to be demolished. The "eventual" recipient's parents are unhappy that the uncles and aunts are spending their money on their own families.

    So far as one can tell, the mother had a fantasy that two, or perhaps three, families would abandon jobs, schools, friends and houses and all move hundreds of miles to play happy families in the "family" house. Instead, there's an abandoned eyesore slowly falling down. Slow. Hand. Clap.
  • troubleinparadisetroubleinparadise Forumite
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    Here's an old favourite story of mine that I have posted previously, but it tells the tale of an extended family and a jointly owned "family home", the brainchild of a preceding generation's member who set up a sharing situation that ultimately became a nightmare for all involved:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3413737/BONG-Feaud-Ten-ITV-newsreader-Tom-Bradby-accuses-relative-blackmail-disputed-family-holiday-home-rare-clock.html

    No, not identical to the OP's thoughts, but a cautionary tale about the pitfalls of what might have seemed a lovely, if sentimental, idea that just didn't work in reality.

    Sometimes it is better to opt for a clean break decision, and keep things simple, so that a bequest can be enjoyable rather than a millstone.
  • MojisolaMojisola Forumite
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    VfM4meplse wrote: »
    Its not a stipulation for the eventual beneficiary.

    It's my choice, I don't see why others are getting so exercised about it.

    Because we've seen similar set-ups go badly wrong and cause problems for the people who were supposed to benefit from the legacy.
  • troubleinparadisetroubleinparadise Forumite
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    Exactly. It's an idea from a very narrow portion of society, where primogeniture was regarded as right and proper. Houses were passed down the line of first-born males, with ad hoc solutions when there were no direct male heirs, and everyone else just lumped it. And this applied to a minute number of people, loosely the "upper classes". As home ownership developed before (for the middle classes) and after (for everyone else) the war, there were other social changes which meant that primogeniture wasn't a plausible solution. And without primogeniture, what do people want: progressively smaller and smaller shares of houses as children, grandchildren and greatgrandchildren further sub-divide your former house? What?

    Where I live rurally primogeniture is still very much alive and kicking in connection to farms and large estates. And no, it isn't very fair by modern standards where there are several siblings, but it has kept these properties and businesses intact, and indeed seems to be generally accepted by those families that the status quo will remain.

    Many of them are trusts for tax reasons, so generally are not "owned" by the one person who by luck of birth gets to live in a large house, have lots of acres and a job for life, but it is then protected for future generations.
  • edited 18 January 2017 at 10:37AM
    getmore4lessgetmore4less Forumite
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    edited 18 January 2017 at 10:37AM
    If being a life tenant is seen as a burden rather than do nothing each life tenant could/should surrender their interest.

    If they all do the remainder men can then just sell.

    Another scenario is all those with an interest agree to sell and split the proceeds.

    the remainder men can buy out the interest of those further up or those further up can buy out the remainder men.
  • securityguysecurityguy Forumite
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    If being a life tenant is seen as a burden rather than do nothing each life tenant could/should surrender their interest.

    If they all do the remainder men can then just sell.

    Another scenario is all those with an interest agree to sell and split the proceeds.

    the remainder men can buy out the interest of those further up or those further up can buy out the remainder men.

    Which is all great. Except if the remaindermen are minors.
  • MalthusianMalthusian Forumite
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    No, I would like them to benefit from the property in whatever way they choose (aside from selling it) before its passed down to the next generation. Renting it out is fine if that is what they choose to do.

    So they can benefit from the property in whatever way they choose as long as it's the way you choose?

    That's not how choice works, other than Hobson's choices.
    VfM4meplse wrote: »
    It's my choice, I don't see why others are getting so exercised about it.

    Because you asked an open forum for opinions on whether your choice was the right thing to do. If you just wanted someone to say "what a lovely idea, I'm sure you know best" then I suggest asking a family member or friend with little interest or experience in financial affairs for their opinion.

    Your objective of having a Will that is easy to execute and your objective of preventing the living from doing what they wish with their property from beyond the grave are incompatible.

    If they are happy to "take it on" then there is no need for stipulations in the Will or complicated trust arrangements. If what you want is for them to be forced to take it on even if they are no longer happy to do so then I have nothing to say.
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