delicate subject - abortion

amus

likelyfran wrote: »

Because some people fight for the vulnerable? Also, people are free to define feotuses/embryos as 'people' - as you put it, I would say living beings - if they want to, regardless of what legal or medical opinion is!

Who are the vulnerable? Ants? Amoebas? Sperms?

Of course people are free to define foetuses/embryos as people, people are also free to describe them as 'a ball of cells' or 'products of conception'.

poet123

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Of course I understand the reluctance, when have I ever said otherwise? I have actually tried to illustrate the scale of the reluctance from my own experience and with links!! :rotfl: Are you finally willing to accept that sterilisation is not a viable alternative to contraception and abortion for most want to remain child free by choice?

No, reluctance is not the same as refusal. As the stats for women under 30 clearly testify.

Sorry to be blunt here, but from an outside observers viewpoint reading your experiences it seems to me that they can be broken down into two reasons; the powers that be felt that you were not a suitable candidate on some of the occasions you asked, and on others you did were not persistent enough/convincing enough to achieve your aim.

likelyfran

poet123 wrote: »

Ohh the irony!!;)

Please explain? Are you saying I'm 'mememe', how do you know?

amus

likelyfran wrote: »

I wasn't actually but now you mention it, that's probably true in a lot of cases. And I'm judging by people I know in real life..

poet123 wrote: »

Ohh the irony!!;)

.....................

poet123

likelyfran wrote: »

Please explain? Are you saying I'm 'mememe', how do you know?

No, I was making the same point as Max. As you say, how could I know your character?

amus

likelyfran wrote: »

Please explain? Are you saying I'm 'mememe', how do you know?

I may be wrong, but a further consideration is the innate selfishness of the very act of reproduction, which in its most basic form is for the survival of genes.

likelyfran

*max* wrote: »

And you were saying some people show a lack of logic? Oh the irony...

Hypothetical exchange:

"I don't want children and I won't have them"
"Well, not with that attitude, you won't!"

Can you not see how illogical your statement is?

Er..no. Perhaps you are not getting my meaning?

Which was simply that (paraphrasing/without trawling back) that those who talk of a life inside them as an inconvenience/tumour/parasite/triviality, give (to me) the impression of being quite selfish 'me first' people in general, who are better off not having kids because they would make awful parents (and therefore should make great efforts not to become pregnant in the first place ).

Simple, no?

(The bit in red, I've no idea how you came up with that one)

likelyfran

poet123 wrote: »

No, I was making the same point as Max. As you say, how could I know your character?

Lost me now. Completely. Max was saying, apparently, that I was saying selfish people wouldn't have children because they're selfish (even though they didn't want them -huh?). You appear to be saying it's ironic for me to call anyone else 'mememe'. Or maybe it's just me.

likelyfran

amus wrote: »

I may be wrong, but a further consideration is the innate selfishness of the very act of reproduction, which in its most basic form is for the survival of genes.

Don't disagree with you there. It's good if people can be honest about their own motivations, esp for something as important having children. I expect that for most, motivation is part selfish and part selfless. Biological programming/human nature/human condition etc.

*max*

likelyfran wrote: »

Er..no. Perhaps you are not getting my meaning?

Which was simply that (paraphrasing/without trawling back) that those who talk of a life inside them as an inconvenience/tumour/parasite/triviality, give (to me) the impression of being quite selfish 'me first' people in general, who are better off not having kids because they would make awful parents (and therefore should make great efforts not to become pregnant in the first place ).

Simple, no?

(The bit in red, I've no idea how you came up with that one)

likelyfran wrote: »

Please explain? Are you saying I'm 'mememe', how do you know?

The irony is in you stating that people who do not want children would make bad parents and should not have kids. Can you not see how ridiculous that statement is?

As for "the bit in red", I'll let you ponder the meaning.