help to get meat is murder by the smiths into the charts

nadnad

Sleepymy - you are really taking this personally - I have not slammed all vegans at all - as I have repeatedly said. I have simply said that I personally do not like it when vegans try to take the morally superior high ground - which is exactly what the OP was trying to do in mentioning this particular song.
Like I said before I don't care what you do - I don't care what anyone does - but in the OP's original post he IS judging meat eaters by basically calling them MURDERERS and I am simply putting my view across by saying I don't really appreciate that.
Its like any group of people trying to force their views on others, or like anyone judging anyone else - I don't like it.
I do not judge Vegans - do what you like it affects me in absolutely no way whatsoever, except when some of you ridicule the majority of the population who are meat eaters.
Your point about not all vegans ramming it down peoples throats - I agree thats true - I have friends who are vegans - but this thread in particular was doing exactly that - and that is what I take issue with. This is a forum where everyone can express their views and I am simply responding to the OP's post. - the OP may I stress - not ALL vegans.
As to whether you make a difference or not - cows will always be slaughtered and as will pigs and all the other animals, fair enough do your bit, but don't expect it to change the world. Its like me recycling - I know it makes very little difference - but I do my bit - the difference between me and the OP is that I don't try to bad mouth anyone who chooses not to do their bit.
I have not discredited you by attacking the way you care for your rescue cats - I just don't understand how any vegan can consciously slam people for eating meat but then happily buy meat for their cats? Maybe I am ignorant "regarding the vegan ethos" but I certainly did not ridicule you for compassion towards animals and nor would I ever do that.

On that subject - its ok for animals to eat other animals because they are carnivores, people are also naturally meat eaters - so I don't see that I'm doing anything wrong. I eat meat but I do it with conscience, like previously stated I buy meat only when I know where it has come from - local produce, animals reared by local farmers kept in good condition.

sleepymy

nadnad wrote: »

and may I also just add to the vegan who feeds his pet ordinary pet food - seriously catch yourself on. You cannot seriously hold your head up and call yourself a vegan and then buy the worst types of meat possible? that is ridiculous. i cant believe you even admit to it. either don't have a pet and forgo the dilemma or you need to start feeding your animal 100% vegan food. its hypocritical to say the least. i understand that the animal needs the food - but YOU are buying it and therefore YOU are contributing to the so called pain and suffering of those animals you are trying to save.

nadnad wrote: »

Sleepymy - you are really taking this personally -

:rotfl: you're funny :rotfl:

I don't happily buy meat for my cats, I hate having to do it, actually hubby takes care of it for me. So that's another in a long list of incorrect assumptions that you've made about me. Seriously, take a look at yourself. Take a look at the attitude you portrayed in your first post with all your 'meat eaters have won' nonsense, as if it's some sort of contest. You and I both know that you were trying to discredit me with the above scathing and ignorant post. Please don't insult my intelligence and your own dignity by trying to say otherwise.

We could have easily had a civilized discussion on the subject, we almost did, if it hadn't been for your sneering attitude in your first couple of posts and backtracking in the last couple. Perhaps you'll remember that next time you decide to jump in and throw your misinformed opinion about. If you really do have vegan friends I can only imagine you don't listen to them very much to have made some of the assumptions and comments you have on this thread.

I do respect some of your opinions because they're yours and you're entitled to them but I have no respect for any of the bigoted, sweeping and at times puerile comments that have been made on this thread by a couple of people.

If you want respect from people, extend them the same courtesy.

nadnad

oh thi is actually ridiculous.
i started off by laughing at the arguments the "meat eaters" were having with the veggies because i find it ridiculous, veggies continually say they are right they are living the right way - whatever like I said I DONT CARE, my point was that they can say this all they want - they can say the Meat is Murder whatever - but still the majority of the worlds population eat meat and that isnt going to change - so from that perspective I dont think veggies will ever win their argument. Yet I again I will say that it is not a contest but the OP's original post was desinged to raise tempers - he is saying that I am a murderer because I eat meat - and frankly I disagree with and take exception to that statement.

Yet again I say I am not trying to discredit you but I honestly don't understand how you can feed your animals meat, if I was to take something this seriously I don't think I could do that. To me its all or nothing, and I do respect you for saving your cats, I just wonder what kind of food you feed them - is it the ordinary cat food which is made from the cheapest cuts of meat and therefore probably from the animals in the worst condition or do you buy meat from a butcher or fish from a fishmonger? I'm simply asking you an honest question here - I am not trying to insult your intelligence or dignity. I'm asking a question and I will learn from your answer.

I have not back tracked at all I have simply tried to make you understand my point of view which seems to be very difficult as you are taking this very personally when my initial response to this thread was nothing at all to do with you - I don't know you, I was simply responding to the OP's post - which I'm sure was designed to raise tempers. The only "personal" thing I have mentioned was in relation to the cat food and I really am interested in that aspect of this.

Yes I really do have vegan friends. and yes we do have discussions about all these subjects - luckily nobody gets hurt - I respect their right not to eat meat and they respect me. This thread however was designed to annoy those of us who do eat meat therefore my reaction.

And I really don't think I have been bigoted, or have made sweeping pureile comments. Point them out and I'll apologise or explain.

As if saying Meat is Murder is not a sweeping statement. And as if calling all meat eaters murderers isnt going to offend, if someone called you a murderer simply for following your own beliefs would you simply say well thank you kind sir i truly do appreciate that. i doubt it. again i point out i know you have not said this but the OP did and that is what I was writing in response to. if i havent made that clear enough already.

Tuttifruitty_Theresa

nadnad wrote: »

Yet again I say I am not trying to discredit you but I honestly don't understand how you can feed your animals meat, if I was to take something this seriously I don't think I could do that. To me its all or nothing, and I do respect you for saving your cats, I just wonder what kind of food you feed them - is it the ordinary cat food which is made from the cheapest cuts of meat and therefore probably from the animals in the worst condition or do you buy meat from a butcher or fish from a fishmonger? I'm simply asking you an honest question here - I am not trying to insult your intelligence or dignity. I'm asking a question and I will learn from your answer.

hi sorry to jump in here but i'm a veggie (not vegan) and can i say thank you, i haven't thought about the moral issue regarding feeding my cats meat, i know it sounds daft but i gave up meat cause of the way animals are killed but i'm still feeding my cats the same meat lol, it really didn't dawn on me (god i'm stupid). This is something that i will have to have a good think about. Like i say thanks again, it's good to have a meat eaters take on this.


xxx

nadnad

well thank you for not blowing it out of proportion!

Tuttifruitty_Theresa

nadnad wrote: »

well thank you for not blowing it out of proportion!

hehehehe nah i wouldn't do that, i only gave up meat a couple of months ago, so i can't say anything about eating it


xxx

sleepymy

I've feed them on a dried food which is made up of rice, meat and cranberry to aid their renal system. I get it shipped from England from a company who are BUAV proved so I can be sure it hasn't been tested on animals. All the major pet food companies experiment on animals to be able to compile their feeding charts you see on the back of the pack. While they're promoting a lovely image of pet care through their lovely fluffy adverts on the tv they're starving and overfeeding kittens and pups in labs to record the effect it has on their body, right up until the poor creatures die in agony. I am currently considering changing suppliers as I've discovered that they breed dogs, which I am against. It's difficult to find one company that ticks all the box's. This is when the, as far as possible and practical, has to be considered. If you really do want to know why I feed them a meat diet look at this...

http://www.vegancats.com/pages/1007/FAQ.htm#1070

Is it true that vegancats.com is telling some people to feed their cats meat?
Yes. After much soul-searching, we have decided to change our official recommedations for certain cats.

Urinary tract problems are extremely common in cats and, because of the relative acidity of meat to vegetable protein, many vegan cats suffer from them.

Although we have been giving advice for some time on how these problems can be minimized while still feeding a completely vegan diet, we have found that the vast majority of our customers have not been following this advice.

Unless you are very committed to following the advice outlined below, we therefore recommend that you mitigate the risk of urinary tract problems by feeding males cats only a 25-75% vegan diet and females a 50-100% vegan diet.

Our mission is to reduce suffering as much as possible through reducing dependancy on meat products for your companion animals, but at the same time, we also have great concern for the overall health and well-being of cats who are prone to urinary tract problems. We do not believe in making companion animals suffer health complications simply because we'd like to feed them an exclusively vegan diet; rather, we believe that people should do the best they can to find a balance that keeps their companions healthy while reducing dependancy on meat products to the greatest extent.

Both my cats are male & 14, one has been prone to bladder infections in the past and would possibly be at increased risk from complications on a vegan diet. Vegan diets for cats is a very controversial subject, as I've previously stated there hasn't been enough research into the long term effects on cats. Taurine deficiency can cause blindness and fatality and is often not detected until the cat is seriously ill and in a great deal of pain.

http://www.vegsoc.org/info/catfood.html

Instead of calling me a hypocrite perhaps you should have asked yourself why a vegan, who abstains from all animal products in food and clothing, feed their cats meat? Do you honestly think it's something any vegan would take lightly? (rhetorical)

I simply would not have the confidence to be able to administer synthetic taurine to them and be sure that it is all they need. If I got it wrong my poor cats would die a terrible death. Would you really want me to take this risk with their lives because of my personal convictions? (rhetorical) Vegan is my choice not my cats.

I had the cats before I turned vegan and I have to consider if I would ever get cats again because of the way this conflicts with my beliefs. But then again is it better to let cats die in a rescue center because of my choices? (rhetorical). Do I wish cats were omnivores/herbivores? Hell yes!

When my cats are gone I hope to possibly foster dogs, to take some pressure off the rescue centers and give the dogs a better chance in life. I'm unsure if I'll adopt any more animals because I hope that, in the future, I'll be able to go abroad and do some humanitarian or animal aid work, I'm not just saying this, it is something I really hope to be able to do.

If you want to know any more just ask, but please don't throw assumptions at me because I find that rude and unnecessary.

RoxsiScotland

http://www.goveg.com/factoryFarming.asp

check it out, meat eaters! if you still want to eat meat after knowing all the facts, fine, but i think many people just eat it without thinking about the fact they have a dead animal on their tongue!

nadnad

first of all i'll answer you RoxsiScotland - as i've said before i can happily say I know where my meat comes from and the animals are happy and healthy until the day they die. I buy my food from local small farmers and farm shops. I do not like cruelty to animals, and will not aid the industry by buying meat from animals who in my opinion have suffered.
The problem is a lot of people dont have the luxury of being able to afford to buy locally produced meat or organic / free range meat because it is incredibly expensive. Free range chicken is at least twice the price of battery chicken - at least, and most families I know cannot afford this.

nadnad

fair enough Sleepymy you buy animal food that is not tested on animals - but where does the meat come from? i say again is it not the worst type of meat - from the worst kept animals? would it not be better to at least buy fresh organic meat and fish for your cats? fair enough i know that at this stage you cant change what they eat as it would be bad for them to be switched from dried food to wet at this stage - but in the future if you got other cats - would this not be an even better alternative?

You've made your point and I take back what Ive said about you being hypocritical, I'm actually glad you don't force your lifestyle on your cats as its not natural - for them. And I respect what you said about thinking twice about getting cats in the future because of the conflict - to me that is sensible.

And i'm not "throwing assumptions at you" like you have stated. I was interested in the aspect of not eating meat but being willing to feed it - and you've answered my questions and thank you for that.

I would ask that veggies maybe don't throw assumptions around about meat eaters - like i've said i'm as conscientious a meat eater as they come, I also have rescued animals and would do anything for them, I give money to animal charities, I would and have put myself in difficult positions to help animals who were being hurt. Just because I eat meat does not mean that I am a "murderer" and certainly does not mean that i haven't got the greatest respect for all animals.