help to get meat is murder by the smiths into the charts

tr3mor

dizzy_lizzie wrote: »

Okay tr3mor, it sounds like you're getting a bit het up here. Can I just say that I totally believe that 'everyone' has a free choice in how they chose to live. For me I chose to live cruelty free and can justify this. You can justify eating meat. All I'm saying is please read the link. It's not 'propoganda'. James Gold was a spinal specialist, it's from a medical point of view.
Also this thread has everything to do with being green, here's why...
Going vegan can reduce your carbon emissions by 1.5 tonnes per year: in comparison, switching from a petrol car to a hybrid car can only reduce emissions by one tonne per year. Switching to a plant based diet is the simplist, healthiest way to slash carbon emissions and combat climate change, and, of course, spare the suffering of animals.
Global water crisis
Animal farming uses much more land, energy and water than plant-based agriculture. There is already a global water shortage, and drought is caused by climate change. Even the most water-intensive plant crop uses far less water per kilogram of food produced than the most water-efficient form of animal agriculture. The worst offender is beef production which uses a staggering 100,ooo litres per kg. If the West continues to consume animal products, it's the worlds rural poor - along with the animals themselves - who will suffer the most.
Greenhouse Gases
Animal farming produces methane and nitrous oxide, both from manure management and the animals own gaseous emissions. More crops must be grown to feed animals than would be needed if fed directly to humans. Farm supplies, animal feed and farmed animals must be transported great distances under this regime, producing carbon dioxide and nitrous oxide. Heat and electricity used by slaughterhouses and farms further increase energy demand, which is currently met by carbon-emitting power stations. Because plant-based agriculture is many times more efficient, the vegan diet has a smaller 'carbon-footprint'.
So as you can see this thread has everything to do with 'being green'.
Hope you find the information 'interesting'.

As fas as I knew this thread was to do with getting some god awful band back in the charts!

ianian99

tr3mor wrote: »

As fas as I knew this thread was to do with getting some god awful band back in the charts!

no i think that was the blag for the OPto blatently advertise a mates cafe.

dizzy_lizzie

mjr600 wrote: »

If this post has done anything it has made me decide to pop out to the farm shop and buy some nice big steaks for tea and some ribs to bbq later this week.
Pat yourself on the back, your post has ensured that a pig and a cow have expired to help feed my family this week.

tr3mor
You're right the original post was...I felt I had to reply to the above post for reasons as explained and threads do evolve in certain ways no less interesting for that.
Also I posted the info on Global warming etc. because you said it had tenuous links to being green. These posts are in the category of Green and Ethical Moneysaving-sometimes cheap can mean envoronmentally unfriendly-so how do you save cash without hurting the planet. Not my words, the boards.
rygon a vegan doesn't just live on vegetables. There are hundreds of tasty and nutritious ways of getting calcium, protein and iron without resorting to animal flesh or dairy.
And yes the definition of murder is as you say, if you look it up. I however feel that any animal on this earth should be able to live without fear or cruelty or bred as food for humans when we can live healthily without it...taking the life of a defenceless animal is murder to me. That's my opinion only and I respect others opinions also!

nadnad

just read the thread.
its so funny! i love this debate. vegans/ vegetarians and omnivores are not going to see eye to eye - EVER, so get over it. who cares? its a waste of breath. Do vegans and vegatarians not see that they are in a very small minority of the worlds population and they are NEVER going to convince the meat lovers to stop eating meat? it is a waste of time and effort.
and you meat eaters getting all annoyed whats the point - you know you've won already - like I said the veggies are never winning this argument - its won.
Humans have ALWAYS eaten meat and most likely always will.
Veggies you are doing a nice thing trying to do your bit but really it wont ever make a difference - cattle will always be killed, chicken, sheep, pigs etc.
However cruelty to some animals does go on, and this is what I would like to see stopped - and its a much more achievable and reasonable goal to see all animals live happily and comfortably before they are killed than to ask that the killing is stopped altogether.
Personally I only eat organic free range chicken - because i've seen battery farms and they are horrific. I only buy organic milk - and have to say that any dairy cows I know (and I know a lot of farmers) live a very nice life out in the fields where they belong - they are looked after very well - they are the farmers livlihood and its in his interest to look after these cows. I only buy local lamb / pork and beef and I try to buy from farm shops. Again sheep are usually very happy and as are the little lambs before they end up on my plate. Also cant say I've seen an unhappy pig.
Really its the chickens I feel for - so veggies - if you want to take up a cause where you might actually make a little bit of difference instead of none - stop wasting your time trying to convert us happy meat eaters and instead try to stop the battery farming of chickens - its barbaric.

nadnad

and may I also just add to the vegan who feeds his pet ordinary pet food - seriously catch yourself on. You cannot seriously hold your head up and call yourself a vegan and then buy the worst types of meat possible? that is ridiculous. i cant believe you even admit to it. either don't have a pet and forgo the dilemma or you need to start feeding your animal 100% vegan food. its hypocritical to say the least. i understand that the animal needs the food - but YOU are buying it and therefore YOU are contributing to the so called pain and suffering of those animals you are trying to save.

sleepymy

nadnad wrote: »

and may I also just add to the vegan who feeds his pet ordinary pet food - seriously catch yourself on. You cannot seriously hold your head up and call yourself a vegan and then buy the worst types of meat possible? that is ridiculous. i cant believe you even admit to it. either don't have a pet and forgo the dilemma or you need to start feeding your animal 100% vegan food. its hypocritical to say the least. i understand that the animal needs the food - but YOU are buying it and therefore YOU are contributing to the so called pain and suffering of those animals you are trying to save.

So if I'd answered that I fed my rescue cats a vegan diet, even though I wasn't sure if it was the best thing for them, you wouldn't have accused me of forcing my choice on carnivorous animals? When it comes to feeding cats vegans are damned if they do and damned if they don't so I do what I feel is best for the animals I rescued 14yrs ago, before I was vegan. They're fed on food which hasn't been tested on animals which I get from a BUAV approved company.

The vegan ethos is to exclude, as far possible and practical, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing, or any other purpose (Becoming Vegan: Brenda Davis R.D. & Vesanto Melina, M.S., R.D.).

Perhaps if people would spend more time actually listening and less time nit picking to prove a point there would be less ridicules comments on this thread.

No one has tried to convert anyone on this thread. People have questioned the veg*n principles and some people have merely posted information to explain it.

The fact that some people feel the need to resort to puerile remarks says far more about their bigoted attitude than the reality of veg*nism.

I was with my husband for 9 yrs before he decided to turn vegetarian. He said that he decided to because I'd never put him under any pressure to give up eating meat. I have a lot of omnivore friends who I love dearly. They and I are able to have discussions about our different opinions and none of them have ever had to resort to snide comments and hissy fits. They tend to be more interested in learning about a different way of life than being the big 'I am', even though they've no plans in becoming veg*n.

I grew up on a farm so my decision to turn vegetarian and then vegan was based on experience and fact, not ignorance.

Contrary to what some like to believe/pretend veg*ns do make a difference, not only to animal welfare but to human welfare. I don't know one veg*n who willfully buys cheap, sweat shop produced products because it saves them money. I donate a small monthly amount to viva who campaign to ban factory farming as well as giving information to friends who are interested in reducing the negative effect they have on the earth and it's inhabitants, both animal and human.

It's just such a shame that some people feel that it's acceptable and intelligent to be so bigoted towards veg*ns that they will attempt to 'score points' rather than having an adult discussion.

What kind of society are we living in when compassion towards human and animal welfare is something which people should be ridiculed for?

nadnad

may i just say that i am NOT bigoted towards vegans I don't have a problem with anyone not eating meat - its your choice, I really don't care - what I do care about is the amount of veggies who criticise and morally judge non veggies. I would never tell any veggie to wise up and start eating meat. I would never criticise anyones choice - but I do not like people ramming it down my throat and portraying an attitude that screams "I am morally superior to you because I do not eat meat".

The thread started off trying to promote a song called "meat is murder" - that in itself is a judgment on those who eat meat. and that is what has annoyed the "meat eaters". What purpose is there to get that song back in the charts other than to criticise those who eat meat? If i've misunderstood and there is in fact another reason for trying to do this then please enlighten me.

And Sleepmy you may well make a difference - but not by simply not eating meat - that is never going to make a difference - until the majority of the world chooses to do the same thing - which as previously stated is never going to happen. You have stated you give money to a charity every month - well so do a lot of meat eaters, you do not have to vegan to do this, and in this case your vegan status simply does not make a difference to the wider world. It may serve to make you feel better about yourself and thats fine but in the wider scheme the fact that you don't eat meat will not save one cow or one sheep or one pig.

May I also add that both my father and brother are farmers - and therefore my experience is also based on fact "not ignorance".

nadnad

sleepymy wrote: »

What kind of society are we living in when compassion towards human and animal welfare is something which people should be ridiculed for?

Where have I ridiculed you for having compassion towards human and animal welfare??

sleepymy

nadnad wrote: »

I do not like people ramming it down my throat and portraying an attitude that screams "I am morally superior to you because I do not eat meat".

Just because some veg*ns may act like this does not mean we all do, and doesn't justify being condescending and rude to all veg*ns which you have to admit some people on this thread have been.

The thread started off trying to promote a song called "meat is murder" - that in itself is a judgment on those who eat meat. and that is what has annoyed the "meat eaters". What purpose is there to get that song back in the charts other than to criticise those who eat meat? If i've misunderstood and there is in fact another reason for trying to do this then please enlighten me.

I can't speak for why the OP put the thread up. None of the veg*ns on this thread wrote the lyrics so I don't see why we should stand back and be ridiculed whether the song annoys meat eaters or not. At a guess the title of the song came about because 'meat is the partially decomposed corpse of a involuntary slaughtered animal' didn't quite roll of the tongue the same.

And Sleepmy you may well make a difference - but not by simply not eating meat - that is never going to make a difference - until the majority of the world chooses to do the same thing - which as previously stated is never going to happen.

It is estimated that there are over 1 million vegans in the world, I'm sure their collective effort had made some difference and some is better than none.

You have stated you give money to a charity every month - well so do a lot of meat eaters, you do not have to vegan to do this, and in this case your vegan status simply does not make a difference to the wider world. It may serve to make you feel better about yourself and thats fine but in the wider scheme the fact that you don't eat meat will not save one cow or one sheep or one pig.

You stated

Really its the chickens I feel for - so veggies - if you want to take up a cause where you might actually make a little bit of difference instead of none - stop wasting your time trying to convert us happy meat eaters and instead try to stop the battery farming of chickens - its barbaric.

My post was to give an example of how I personally (and most vegans I know) are active in attempting to stop factory farming. If you're really interested, pigs are widely considered to be the most abused of the factory farm animals, veal calves, ducks and geese used for fois gras are also horrifically abused.

I haven't tried to convert anyone to veganism, only provided information to those who have questioned it so your last assumption is sweeping and as so bigoted.

May I also add that both my father and brother are farmers - and therefore my experience is also based on fact "not ignorance".

In your attempt to discredit me by attacking the way I care for my rescue cats you showed your ignorance regarding the vegan ethos.

sleepymy

nadnad wrote: »

Where have I ridiculed you for having compassion towards human and animal welfare??

I think your post about how I feed my cats can safely be considered as ridicule (unkind words or actions that make someone or something look stupid or worthless).