Choice of intelligent switches ?

Martyn1981

spgsc531 wrote: »

Just thought we should get some facts in there instead of sweeping statements

http://www.confused.com/gas-electricity/articles/ofgem-measures-allow-energy-prepayment-meter-customers-in-debt-to-switch-suppliers


"The average annual bill for a prepayment meter customer on a dual fuel tariff (where you have gas and electricity from the same firm) is £1,306, compared to £1,222 for customers paying by monthly direct debit.
This is according to research by consumer watchdog Consumer Focus and these figures take into account the latest gas and electricity price rises."

Technically that is up to 3 times more - it would certainly pass the Cardew test for reliable, accurate, honest reporting. :eek:

Edit: Joking (and dis-information) aside, what is happening about the ruling that those on pre-payment meters must be offered the lowest rate?

Mart.

zeupater

The_Green_Man wrote: »

Unfortunately that doesn't tally, as evidenced by the large passivhaus developments as seen on TV. Large homes, very little energy use.

What we do see however is that poorer people live in less well insulated properties, who have energy inefficient white goods, boilers and heating controls, who are often subject to pre-payment meters and therefore have a much higher energy useage than other people in much larger homes.

People who rent in the poorer end of the market are even worst hit. The properties are poorly built and maintained and their landlords have zero incentive to spend money on insulation or energy efficient appliances because it is the tenant who pays the utility bills.

Hi

I really do like the way that sweeping statements are made to support points without any supporting evidence ....

The BRE produced a report on the UK's housing stock which provides a breakdown by various criteria, including age, ownership profiles etc, which might provide interesting reading ( http://www.bre.co.uk/filelibrary/pdf/rpts/Fact_File_2008.pdf ) .... also, the UKSA's recent report ( https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/88370/EHS_Headline_Report_2011-2012.pdf ) provides the latest analysis of households by SAP & EER rating showing that EER bands A&B combined account for only 0.2% (38k) of the total housing stock in 2011 (Table 14/p40) ....

Both reports make good reading for those who would like to expand their knowledge without the need to rely on second-hand, often heavily biased, sources ...

HTH
Z

EricMears

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Technically that is up to 3 times more - it would certainly pass the Cardew test for reliable, accurate, honest reporting. :eek:Mart.

Wow ! I've just realised that my FIT payments will come into the class of "up to a million pounds" :T

The_Green_Man_2

zeupater wrote: »

Hi

I really do like the way that sweeping statements are made to support points without any supporting evidence ....

The BRE produced a report on the UK's housing stock which provides a breakdown by various criteria, including age, ownership profiles etc, which might provide interesting reading ( http://www.bre.co.uk/filelibrary/pdf/rpts/Fact_File_2008.pdf ) .... also, the UKSA's recent report ( https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/88370/EHS_Headline_Report_2011-2012.pdf ) provides the latest analysis of households by SAP & EER rating showing that EER bands A&B combined account for only 0.2% (38k) of the total housing stock in 2011 (Table 14/p40) ....

Both reports make good reading for those who would like to expand their knowledge without the need to rely on second-hand, often heavily biased, sources ...

HTH
Z

You guys do realise that you need to actually quote the salient points of reports that support your arguments, not just link to large reports say that they support your argument. :rotfl:

The_Green_Man_2

"Will my prepayment meter cost me more money?

Having a prepayment meter almost always means you will be paying more than you need to for your energy bills. Not only is the unit price for your energy more expensive with a prepayment meter, but the cheapest tariffs offered by suppliers are usually not made available to prepayment customers.
In addition to this, if you have an older style of meter then it may need to be updated with price changes manually. As energy companies will need to go round many different houses to do this, it could sometimes be months until your meter is updated- leaving you paying over the odds for your energy, or finding out that you actually owe money."

Difficult therefore to look at the bills of someone on a direct debit and able to get onto the cheapest tariff with someone who is on a pre-payment meter and excluded from the best tariffs.

EricMears

The_Green_Man wrote: »

You guys do realise that you need to actually quote the salient points of reports that support your arguments, not just link to large reports say that they support your argument.

I'm sure the authors of such reports would be very surprised to hear that anyone could summarise their years of hard work in a few sentences ! Even their own 'preliminary outline' needs mnore than that.

What's wrong with reading the whole report ?

The_Green_Man_2

EricMears wrote: »

I'm sure the authors of such reports would be very surprised to hear that anyone could summarise their years of hard work in a few sentences ! Even their own 'preliminary outline' needs mnore than that.

What's wrong with reading the whole report ?

That's not how it works. I could post a link to the encyclopeadia Britanica and say that "somewhere in there it says that the Sky is green and the fields are blue", then demand you read the entire thing to prove that I'm wrong.

You guys and your debating tricks.

zeupater

The_Green_Man wrote: »

Ah, the PV boys are 'tag-teaming' again. No matter, I'm not intimidated.

I suggest you look at what we were talking about rather than jumping into the conversation half way through. A quick summary: the question was whether fits we based on consumption (kWh) or Billing (£). Eric thought the two were the same and used his trademark sarcasm as a putdown (which always makes him look silly when he's wrong :rotfl:).

I pointed out that useage and billing are not essentially the same - as evidenced by the use of pre-payment meters where the same amount of energy (hWh) can cost upto 3 times more (£).

Hi

Again, misinformation ....

I have followed carefully and fully understand the debate. Your own post stated ...

The_Green_Man wrote: »

Are you saying you'd like those who consume more energy to pay more for other people's PV? Is that calculated by kWh used or a more rudimentary percentage figure added to the overall bill (i.e. 1% on top of the total bill in £)? ....

... which concerns the raising of the funds from which the FiT is paid, not the payment of the FiT itself ... and my post addressed exactly this point as can clearly be deduced by anyone ...

As for 'tag-teaming' .... :rotfl: ..... all I can see is reasoned discussion with supporting evidence set against unsupported & generally irrational obstinacy .... what I have gathered though through the recent exchanges is the main identity of the alter-ego ....

HTH
Z

zeupater

The_Green_Man wrote: »

You guys do realise that you need to actually quote the salient points of reports that support your arguments, not just link to large reports say that they support your argument. :rotfl:

Hi

The information is there for anyone to digest and see where the unsupported factual errors which have been forwarded are regarding the relative levels of energy consumption within the various housing sectors (owned, private rented, HAs) etc .... anyway, the 'salient point' would normally be considered as being fully addressed and referenced through " .... latest analysis of households by SAP & EER rating showing that EER bands A&B combined account for only 0.2% (38k) of the total housing stock in 2011 (Table 14/p40) " ... which completely counters the point made regarding "large passivhaus developments " as they simply don't currently exist.

The reports still make very good reading for anyone who is interested in how large the real issue at hand (efficient energy usage) actually is.

HTH
Z

Cardew

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

I would hope that the levy is applied in proportion to existing consumption, rather than per electricity meter as a sort of poll tax. So the most is paid by the largest existing consumers?

John,
This was covered in an earlier post.

Most of the 'better off' that collect FIT are in houses that they own, and I would suspect that a low percentage would have all electric heating. The majority will have gas/oil central heating and of course the levy is only on electricity consumption.

Not so the 'less well off' in rented accomodation/flats where electric heating is commonplace.

I don't have any figures, but I suspect that the FIT levy impacts to a far greater degree on the poorer in our society.