Fallen out with my DF just before visiting him abroad.

helenthemum

Not brave just probably stupid.

Fire_Fox

Deal with the itinerary before you go, you have already told him what the kids want to do - dealing with it when there is letting him take control again.

marisco_2

There are things in your fathers email that raise alarm bells with me. He does not apologise for being demanding of your time and then being rude when you would not instantly give it. There is no mention of regret for how he addressed you in the original email, or for threatening that you would lose your holiday if you did not apologise to him.

How many children has he raised? Does he have any concept of what you and the children have been through in the past few months? What you all need right now is a loving family member to welcome you with open arms into their home. Not threaten you all at the last minute with losing a much needed little holiday. He should respect the fact that you will want to take the chance to relax and be with each other. Take things one day at a time and just see where each day takes you. A holiday isn't about planning a schedule and sticking to it.

My ex bil was of the same ilk as your father appears to be. He came to stay with us years ago and expected me to draft an itinerary of events that we would be doing for the 2 weeks he was with us. So he had something to read over and look forward to. He got told very bluntly where to stick that idea and left after the longest 10 days of our lives.

I dont know your father at all but he comes across as an arrogant man who lives in complete denial of how his attitude and behaviour effects you. His response to you raising concerns re the church event highlights this. I see what you mean about him talking to you as if you are a child. I would think very carefully before taking children on this trip. I think you could have a much happier and memorable holiday, for all the right reasons, elsewhere.

helenthemum

Marisco he partly raise 4 children I won't go into the all the details, but life wasn't easy for him or us. He is in denial he thinks everyone loves him. If that was true he would still be happily married to my mother who threw him out when I was 2.

My daughter thinks it will be OK, I know different, she just wants a holiday. I did try to explain to her that we could do something else.

For me this is going to be a goodbye, if I do see him again it will be on my terms and not for a few years. I have a good reason not to see him next year, I know he will try the guilt trip when we are over there. He has already started going about us visiting at Christmas which is a no no. I did say he could come here but he won't because of his age! And because it would make things difficult for other family members.

Mantra I can say in my head ...... I am here for my children don't let him get to you

daska

Personally I'd only go if I had an escape route. Do you have enough that you could move out to a cheap motel if he behaves as badly as it seems obvious he will?

Another good response for you might be "If my children behaved like this they would be grounded for being rude/ inconsiderate/ telling untruths. You should apologise immediately." It won't go down well but TBH what do you have to lose?

cheeswright

hi helen the mum
you are brave to go but you shouldnt - in any way - go expecting him to suddenly realise his behaviour is upsetting you - and then have a lightbulb moment and a sudden personality change....its not going to happen...
he is who he is
its very unlikly that he has never been confronted with his behaviour especially his wife leaving him
and this didnt change him
so politely skirting around issues isnt going to work either
hes a curmugeonly old bloke living alone....
but hes a father and grandfather...and somewhere in there that might count for something
so try starting sentences with "I need......

"I need to do something simpler...
"I need to just sit quietly for half an hour
"I need to.....whatever it is you really need him do do

and you need a phase to use on him to clearly let him know that hes behaviour is out of line - but that is still affectionate...
like.." Oh! your such an old fussbucket" or whatever suits your relationship....

basicly you need to be able to forgive him for who he is..

Grimbal

cheeswright wrote: »

you need to be able to forgive him for who he is..

Funnily enough, hubby & I were discussing this issue this morning. I was of the opinion that whilst you are free to choose to forgive personality quirks, you don't ever have to.


I've just read the narcissistic mother thread &, whilst my own mother is not at the top of the scale, she does display some of these damaging behaviours. She's a drama queen, manipulative, controlling & prone to denial of issues & behaviours of herself even in the face of the truth. I have grown up with a lack of self confidence & a never ending questioning of my own abilities & behaviours because of her.


I've come to realise that even though she is my own mother, I don't have to forgive her these personality traits - I wouldn't keep a friend that is this toxic. So, although I can understand the sentiment in the post above, I would say that no one needs to forgive a parent anything if it's damaging to their own health & wellbeing

cheeswright

Sorry Grimbal
I didnt mean to offend ...and I think I consider forgiveness to mean something slightly different here - perhaps its the wrong word even...

its more an acknowlegement of the other persons personality being fully formed and understanding yours is too- and deciding - without guilt - how you can overlap..and even if you want to.or even if you need to be one..or more continents away from them....but importantly without striving to change the other person, because thats often not an option..

perhapse I mean acceptance ? - but there is no implication that this should include emotions such as love - or even liking..more a decision not to waste your time / life trying to change them

Grimbal

cheeswright wrote: »

Sorry Grimbal
I didnt mean to offend ...and I think I consider forgiveness to mean something slightly different here - perhaps its the wrong word even...

its more an acknowlegement of the other persons personality being fully formed and understanding yours is too- and deciding - without guilt - how you can overlap..and even if you want to.or even if you need to be one..or more continents away from them....but importantly without striving to change the other person, because thats often not an option..

perhapse I mean acceptance ? - but there is no implication that this should include emotions such as love - or even liking..more a decision not to waste your time / life trying to change them

Not upset at all - please don't worry ! I understand your post much better in the light of your last paragraph now

helenthemum

Just thought I would update you. We are part way through our holiday.

So far he has upset my son who tried to my father he was wrong about something. He has belittled him to his face. Told him he is argumentative and never known a boy to be so rude. All my son has done is tried to question my father about some of the things he has said. My son is 13! He hasn't sworn or run wild, in fact for his age he has been wonderfull.

He has the TV so loud and talks over it non stop, when I mean non stop I tried to time him to see how long he was quiet for and never reached 1 min. My daughter has problems with her ears which he doesn't understand and just says well I am going deaf, well so will my daughter very soon. Going to try and tackle that one again tomorrow.

He thinks the children are ungrateful as they don't look like they are enjoying themselves, its because he has an opinion about anything and everything, he told my to ask him any question he like, so my son did, he then told him off for questioning him all the time. Grrr

Only another 4 1/2 days left.