SORN for car kept on public road? Tax but no insurance (complicated)

spiro

bazster wrote: »

It's not just a release fee you need to worry about, if the police take the car away they may well crush it.

I read in the paper the other day that they have just passed the one million mark on this and about 2-30% are crushed.

Notmyrealname

Joe_Horner wrote: »

No it hasn't.

Until the CI regulations, a car used on a public road had to be insured. Having it parked may or may not have counted as "using" in any particular case and there's case law to support both sides depending on the circumstances.

No there isn't, there is law on one side only. If the car is on the Queens Highway it MUST be taxed, insured and MOT'd if required. If it is being driven to and from a pre-booked MOT it must be insured. There is absolutely no exclusion anywhere in law for a vehicle being on the Queens Highway without insurance.

And I mention Queens Highway for a reason as it covers all the road up to the boundary of a private property which includes verges, no matter how wide they may be. Where the red car is parked here is actually Queens Highway as the property boundary doesn't start until the garden wall (used to live a couple of doors down) and the owner of that red car could be done for no road tax/insurance/MOT if the vehicle didn't have it whilst parked there.

Aretnap

bazster wrote: »

It's not just a release fee you need to worry about, if the police take the car away they may well crush it.

Cars only get crushed if they're (a) not reclaimed after at least 14 days and (b) of little or no value. Admittedly that accounts for a good proportion of the uninsured vehicles that the police seize. Unreclaimed cars with significant market value get sold at auction, and the proceeds are repayable to the owner, less the costs of the seizure and sale.

fivetide

Two things - lady has suffered a tragic loss so sentimentality might come into the reason the car hasn't gone as yet.

Secondly, there is no mention of already having or running two cars. The OP specifically states that she may need a car next year as she is moving to a rural location. That says to me she currently does not use one.

Edit - doh! does mention having a PCN for a ticket on another car. Which makes the need to have a car when moving a tad strange.

Still, I can understand why someone who has had a recent loss might want to hang on to possessions and although it isn't very MSE would urge a little sympathy.

5t.

Rover_Driver

Notmyrealname wrote: »

No there isn't, there is law on one side only. If the car is on the Queens Highway it MUST be taxed, insured and MOT'd if required. If it is being driven to and from a pre-booked MOT it must be insured. There is absolutely no exclusion anywhere in law for a vehicle being on the Queens Highway without insurance.

Legally there is no 'Queens Highway', there is different legislation covering insurance and vehicle licences. Unless the vehicle is off road and a SORN declaration is in force,
For insurance the person using the vehicle on a road or other public place is required to be insured, s.143 Road Traffic Act 1988 - the requirement is the use of the vehicle, not the vehicle itself that needs insurance.
For the vehicle licence it depends on whether the vehicle is used or kept on a public road - a road repairable at public expense.
You can have the situation where a vehicle is not used or kept on a public road, so does not need a licence and can be SORN, but insurance is required as the road is considered to be a public place - some roads around airports are a good example.

Gloomendoom

fivetide wrote: »

Secondly, there is no mention of already having or running two cars.

5t.

Not two cars, just the one...

Especially as I already had to pay the bailiffs £820 to get my own car unclamped a couple of weeks ago...

That is why it has been suggested that, if she can't afford to tax and insure two cars, she sells the car she is currently using and uses her late husband's car instead.

Mrs_Arcanum

You will need to get insurance or get the car off the road. No other options.

However, if you do get it off road you should be able to get a SORN which will be cheaper than insuring & taxing the car.

Joe_Horner

Joe_Horner wrote: »

No it hasn't.

Until the CI regulations, a car used on a public road had to be insured. Having it parked may or may not have counted as "using" in any particular case and there's case law to support both sides depending on the circumstances.

OP, with the new regs you'll have to either insure it or find somewhere to park it off road. Just one of the side effects of this bit of this unnecessary, ineffective, and badly thought out legislation I'm afraid.

Notmyrealname wrote: »

No there isn't, there is law on one side only. If the car is on the Queens Highway it MUST be taxed, insured and MOT'd if required.

Did you not see the bit I've highlighted above? There was NO requirement for insurance unless the car was being "used" until they brought in the new regs. The only offence was under the RTA 1988 Section 143 as it was enacted (original version here: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/contents/enacted ):

(1)Subject to the provisions of this Part of this Act—
(a)a person must not use a motor vehicle on a road unless there is in force in relation to the use of the vehicle by that person such a policy of insurance or such a security in respect of third party risks as complies with the requirements of this Part of this Act, and

(b)a person must not cause or permit any other person to use a motor vehicle on a road unless there is in force in relation to the use of the vehicle by that other person such a policy of insurance or such a security in respect of third party risks as complies with the requirements of this Part of this Act.

On the matter of what "use" means, there is case law on both sides and being parked up may, or may not, constitute "use" depending on the situation. That is why some legislation refers to "using" and some to "keeping".

As I thought I made clear in my very first post, this is now academic because the CI regulations now require insurance on ALL vehicles unless they're declared SORN (S. 144(a) and (b) of the revised Act refer).

Incidentally, no you do NOT need a valid MOT to be parked on the road. The only offence concerning that is under S.47 of the Act which, again, concerns "use" not "keeping"

mattyprice4004

You have 2 choices - either insure it, or get it off the road.

It's that simple legally.

slyracoon

To be on a public road the car must have Tax AND Insurance, even if its not being driven.

The alternative is SORN and store it on private property.