We want to pay for our gas, but can't!!!

wantstopaygas

About 18 months ago I moved into a flat with my girlfriend. The flat is number 10, in a block of 10, and I have a hunch that it was used for non-residential purposes went it was originally built, hence the problems I'm about to explain.

The flats were built recently, and I believe only one other resident had lived in the flat for 2 years before we moved in. When I started updating addresses for bank statements etc... after we'd moved in, every business I spoke to had no evidence of our address on any database. It was as if our flat never existed.

When I got in touch with EDF, they told us that they previous tenant hadn't registered the gas, so they had been getting it for free. They advised us to speak to the National Grid to get registered, and then go back to EDF. After a lot of hoop jumping, we finally got signed up, and started paying monthly direct debits to EDF (I think of about £30), which we paid for about a year.

After a while we realised that EDF hadn't actually sent us a bill. After a few lengthy calls, it turned out that they actually had no idea how much gas they were giving us. At this point, we told them we were going to stop paying our direct debit unless they got this sorted. They said they were making this high priority and it would fixed in a fortnight (and that was 3 months ago). They still haven't fixed it, and we've had no further correspondence from them.

We want to pay for our gas, and feel like we've tried our upmost to get it sorted - there's only so long you can spend sitting on a phone on hold to these people. We'd like to get our money back for the year of direct debits we've already paid them if they're unable to give us a bill. Does anybody know if that's possible? I'm guessing they're not entitled to keep our money if they can't account for our usage. Other people have told us just to keep schtumm about it, but I don't want to have a big gas bill coming back to haunt us. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

jalexa

wantstopaygas wrote: »

We want to pay for our gas,

You have gas so you must have a meter. So how much gas have you used in 18 months as evidenced by the meter?

lemontart

National grid do not register users, that is done by the appointed gas supplier, if the records held by national grid show no registered gas supplier and the same is true if the igt database if it has an independent gas transporter then you are free to register with whom you please. But you must check first.

Then that gas supplier will register the details on the national data base and if you have no meter point reference number the supplier must also arrange for a new one to be generated for you.

Terrylw1

You should check who supplies your property first via the distributor.

It could be that EDF can't bill you because they never registered you. If this is the case, you can go where you want.

Did you give EDF your current reading when they are supposed to have registered you, they would have no ability to use the installation reading.

So, first work out if you are registered. If you are, they can't bill you beyond 12 months if they should have, but Ofgem state you always pay for the previous 12 months.

sbunny

If the gas supply was installed in recent years a Meter Point Reference Number (MPRN) should have been generated at that time. It should have been left a copy of this on yellow card attached to the Emergency Control Valve (before the meter). Having this should help signing up with a gas supplier.
When the meter was fitted it's serial the should have been added to Xoserve's MPRN database along which nominated gas supplier at the time, (in industry known as 'Shipper')
The database is managed by Xoserve (formerly a department of what is now National Grid)
Xoserve say: 'Need to know your domestic M number? 0870 608 1524' but really your chosen supplier should help identify the MPRN and if one does not exist arrange for it to be created.
If you were not using the gas at moment this would involve them asking the Gas Transporter to do a 'live/dead' check which may involve a visit to check you supply then this generates a ref number the gas supplier uses to then ask for MPRN to be created.
It may help and be of use to you to contact your local authority and find out the Unique Property Reference Number (UPRN) in the Local Land and Property Gazetteer (LLPG), this links any changes in address such as from transitional plot number or a business address to present residential postal address. It maybe that the Meter Point Reference Number is still recorded against a previous 'transitional' or business name address. It maybe worth doing this for all neighbors, and asking them if they had similar issues, in block to help get an idea of any mix up.

If you are not happy with a gas supplier choose another one, they should use the Xoserve database to find out existing nominated Shipper whether it is EDF or not and inform them of switch. I suggest you keep a record of meter readings and keep giving to them every few months. There is now a limit of a year for backdating bill for domestic supplies if you gave them readings but they did not bill you. If you need pointers to help work out from meter readings how much to set aside for bill just ask.

stubla78

If you are sitting comfortably, let me tell you a story!!

This happened to me when i moved into a new build in 2007. I heard nothing for approximately the first 4 months. Then i started to worry about a hefty bill, etc. Despite repeated attempts to establish a supply I got nowhere.

Cue Ofgems backbilling legislation. I decided to sit tight in the knowledge that because i had documented evidence of taking reasonable steps to establish a supply, the maximum i could be charged was a year in arrears. (This may only have been my interpretation of the rules)

I decided to sit on it until August 2011 when i became worried that this could not go on forever and a hefty 3-4k bill was headed my way.

I contacted British gas again and finally got somewhere. I was told i had whats called in the trade a 'shipless address'. I needed to pick any supplier and register my meter with them. It took approximately 6 weeks for this to happen then they had to agree a supply start date. I began paying for gas on 10th October 2011. So on top of the 4.5 years of free gas i got another 10 weeks free whilst it was set up!

Moral of the story is they cant charge you until the meter is registered, a supply contract set up and an initial meter reading given. My regret was probably doing it at all but 4.5 years of free gas was a good run and I didnt want to be greedy!

chanz4

stubla78 wrote: »

If you are sitting comfortably, let me tell you a story!!

This happened to me when i moved into a new build in 2007. I heard nothing for approximately the first 4 months. Then i started to worry about a hefty bill, etc. Despite repeated attempts to establish a supply I got nowhere.

Cue Ofgems backbilling legislation. I decided to sit tight in the knowledge that because i had documented evidence of taking reasonable steps to establish a supply, the maximum i could be charged was a year in arrears. (This may only have been my interpretation of the rules)

I decided to sit on it until August 2011 when i became worried that this could not go on forever and a hefty 3-4k bill was headed my way.

I contacted British gas again and finally got somewhere. I was told i had whats called in the trade a 'shipless address'. I needed to pick any supplier and register my meter with them. It took approximately 6 weeks for this to happen then they had to agree a supply start date. I began paying for gas on 10th October 2011. So on top of the 4.5 years of free gas i got another 10 weeks free whilst it was set up!

Moral of the story is they cant charge you until the meter is registered, a supply contract set up and an initial meter reading given. My regret was probably doing it at all but 4.5 years of free gas was a good run and I didnt want to be greedy!

A supplier cant, but the network can and they can bill all the way

stubla78

chanz4 wrote: »

A supplier cant, but the network can and they can bill all the way

Just offering my experience. Sounds like i got off lightly?

How does a network charge?

Terrylw1

stubla78 wrote: »

Just offering my experience. Sounds like i got off lightly?

How does a network charge?

The distributors could apply the statute of limitations, however the Ofgem rule could still be applied in some cases unless the distributor could prove it was a theft, in which case can they charge beyond the statute of limitations Chanz?

If a distributor wants to do this, its tricky ground as unless its theft, the customer may dispute the price per kwh.

The industry should blame itself for the "shipperless" issue, the elec industry prevented this with a simple process change in July 2000 by preventing anyone fitting the meter (what used to be called "oneshotting" which caused a lot of problems).

So, those governing the industry and its processes are to blame for allowing this to happen.

In terms of the supplier, they don't get charged until registered. So, does the distributor get informed of a customer reporting this? Of course not, suppliers don't care as it costs them more to pursue it.

They need to stop this process of fitting a meter. That then only leaves the illegal meters Chanz has mentioned on other threads, but they would be theft issues.

Do distributors charge customers? If they find out, I'm sure they do. Do they find out though?

chanz4

Terrylw1 wrote: »

The distributors could apply the statute of limitations, however the Ofgem rule could still be applied in some cases unless the distributor could prove it was a theft, in which case can they charge beyond the statute of limitations Chanz?

If a distributor wants to do this, its tricky ground as unless its theft, the customer may dispute the price per kwh.

The industry should blame itself for the "shipperless" issue, the elec industry prevented this with a simple process change in July 2000 by preventing anyone fitting the meter (what used to be called "oneshotting" which caused a lot of problems).

So, those governing the industry and its processes are to blame for allowing this to happen.

In terms of the supplier, they don't get charged until registered. So, does the distributor get informed of a customer reporting this? Of course not, suppliers don't care as it costs them more to pursue it.

They need to stop this process of fitting a meter. That then only leaves the illegal meters Chanz has mentioned on other threads, but they would be theft issues.

Do distributors charge customers? If they find out, I'm sure they do. Do they find out though?

Its 6 years for the grid, what you have to remember is that the grid is not regulated the same and as the op had made no attempt to pay or bring it to the grids attention that it has no supplier but was using gas. Theft is treated different and can be applied right back.

Most of the meters we find are bought of ebay, and if found we prosecute and bill right back. If gas is been used but not paid for its theft from the network, if shipperless. They take a number equal to the sites AQ and work out the kwhs

olly300

wantstopaygas have you made a formal complaint in writing to EDF about them taking money from you without them actually registering your gas meter?

Unfortunately many businesses don't take you seriously until you put pen to paper as call centre operators can easily pass you around.

Make a formal complaint in writing sending a letter to:
Compaints Resolution Manager at EDF Energy, Freepost RRYZ-ERTT-CBJS, Osprey House, Osprey Road, Exeter, EX2 7WN

Make sure you mark the letter "Formal Complaint".

If you don't have an account number then ensure you put your full name and address.

Even though the address is freepost you should send the letter by recorded delivery so they cannot deny you sent the letter to them.

If you don't get the issue resolved in 8 weeks then you can take your complaint to the Energy Ombudsman.

• Telephone: 0330 440 1624 (Mon-Fri, 9am – 5pm)
• Website: www.os-energy.org.uk
• Address: Ombudsman Services: Energy, PO Box 966, Warrington, WA4 9D