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Phased return to work

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Comments

  • euronorris
    euronorris Posts: 12,247 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper PPI Party Pooper
    Fire_Fox wrote: »
    Maybe reread the thread, what I actually posted and in what context instead of what you erroneously infer from it. Examples of scenarios where why the conclusions leaped to might be invalid. Not an interpretation of the facts nor drawing conclusions nor stated reasons as you variously claim. Huge clue in the repeated use of the words "might be".

    Then I ask you to do the same with my posts.
    February wins: Theatre tickets
  • Mr_Toad
    Mr_Toad Posts: 2,462 Forumite
    Lizzybop wrote: »
    Not looking for advice, just interested what you think :)

    Someone is on a phased return to work following a period of signed off sickness. Job is a fairly standard 9-5.30 mon-fri desk based office job - no special travel or manual work etc...

    Has been paid full salary throughout period of sickness.

    Person wants to book a weeks holiday. They are currently doing 3 half days per week (mon, weds & fri mornings).

    Do you think they should have to take 5 days off their holiday entitlement to get a week off? Or if they just take 3 half days should they be able to have a whole week off?

    It doesn't matter what we think, all that matters is what has been said and agreed between the individual and the company he works for.

    I had nearly a year off sick on full pay. My company HR department arranged for me to be assessed by an independent doctor appointed by the company. This doctor agreed with my GP and consultant and reported back that not only was I unfit to return but that when I did I would be subject to the protection of the disability discrimination legislation.

    I did a phased return to work over a 6 month period. I worked Monday, Wednesday and Friday to start with. If I wanted to take to take Friday off I used 1 days leave, I was not expected to work Tuesday or Thursday to make up the 3 days. That is what HR agreed with me. After 3 months I moved to working Monday, Tuesday & Wednesday then added Thursday after another 2 months finally going full time after 6 months.

    It is quite possible this person knew he was getting to the point where he couldn't manage a full week and asked for his hours to be dropped without going down the medical route. Some people like to keep their health problems to themselves.

    His company refused, they are entitled to do that if it is just a request. His health then worsens to the point where he goes of sick followed by a phased return. If his illness, like mine, means he is classed as disabled then part of the protection is that the company may be required to reduce his hours as part of the adjustments he is entitled to. In my case I don't travel as much as I used to, I no longer do 12 hour days and I work from home.

    I have annual assessments and if my health is suffering reducing my hours is an option, my salary would be reduced accordingly.

    The disability discrimination act is to prevent companies getting rid of people and forcing the Govt. to pay them benefits. It's all about allowing the person to work as much as they can without being got rid of and forced to live at the taxpayers expense.

    I would suggest you leave it to the person concerned and the company he works for. It is nothing at all to do with you or even the people he works with.

    If he is not protected by the disability discrimination act you can be sure that his HR department will take whatever action is appropriate. If they step out of line they may find themselves in court.
    One by one the penguins are slowly stealing my sanity.
  • Bambam
    Bambam Posts: 359 Forumite
    euronorris wrote: »
    Again, I haven't leapt to any conclusions (I have not concluded anything, I have speculated. A conclusion would be to say 'this is definitely how it is', but I haven't done that), or intimated that they are lying.

    Think you may want to look back to at least a couple of your posts

    POST No. 41:

    "...I am willing to bet [the OP] works with him (despite what he/she may say")

    POST No. 46:

    "...You telling me that you don't doesn't make it true"

    To intimate means to 'hint at subtly or indirectly'
    It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.
    :kisses3:
  • euronorris
    euronorris Posts: 12,247 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper PPI Party Pooper
    Quite right with Post No 41. My bad. My apologies, I did intimate on that occasion. But I stand by it. It's my opinion and I'm entitled to it.

    As for Post nr 46, I wasn't intimating anything. What I said is correct and is applicable to everyone, especially on the internet. I could tell you that I'm an astronaut, but it wouldn't make it true and you'd be perfectly within your rights not to believe.

    Are you bored though? Hunting those out to quote?
    February wins: Theatre tickets
  • Bambam
    Bambam Posts: 359 Forumite
    euronorris wrote: »
    Quite right with Post No 41. My bad. My apologies, I did intimate on that occasion. But I stand by it. It's my opinion and I'm entitled to it.

    Then why deny it in your previous post? Tsk!
    euronorris wrote: »
    Are you bored though? Hunting those out to quote?

    Ha! didn't take much hunting - I re-called that someone had said the OP was lying - and that's the truth :p
    It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.
    :kisses3:
  • Fire_Fox
    Fire_Fox Posts: 26,026 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    euronorris wrote: »
    Quite right with Post No 41. My bad. My apologies, I did intimate on that occasion. But I stand by it. It's my opinion and I'm entitled to it.

    As for Post nr 46, I wasn't intimating anything. What I said is correct and is applicable to everyone, especially on the internet. I could tell you that I'm an astronaut, but it wouldn't make it true and you'd be perfectly within your rights not to believe.

    Apology accepted! :p The context of post 46 is abundantly clear given what you intimated only five posts earlier.
    Declutterbug-in-progress.⭐️⭐️⭐️ ⭐️⭐️
  • maman
    maman Posts: 29,976 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    To return to the point in question.....

    I think the person concerned has the most amazing conditions of service. In my field we have 6 months full pay, 6 months half pay. Phased returns are rarely longer than a month. I thought that was good!! I think it unlikely that we're looking at a bad employer here.

    An employee has a right to request part time working but as this person doesn't have dependents then that doesn't count in law. Anyone can ask but an employer can refuse although they need to be careful if there's a precedent. It seems this employer has refused him and OP thinks he may be using illness to get his own way. If the employer can make a really good case for why the job must be done in 5 days rather tha 4 then may be able to dismiss on ill health grounds. The employer can't wait indefinitely for him to recover his fitness as he's got the efficiency of the company to consider.

    There is a relevance in the salary as this person can obviously afford to drop his earnings by 20%. If a part time person was brought in for Fridays then the employer has funds freed up to pay them. If I worked there and he was eventually allowed to work 4 days then I'd be going to the employer and putting this strongly if extra work was being handed around (but no extra money). I'd definitely be doing an occupational health referral but if his doctor supports him there's not much more that can be done other than trying ill health dismissal.

    Oh and if you missed the answer to your question in amongst all the squabbling;)

    As he's being paid full time salary he should take a full week's leave.
  • RosaBernicia
    RosaBernicia Posts: 4,909 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    Lizzybop wrote: »
    Has anyone changed their view?????????

    No, of course not. Neither I nor you can possibly know all the personal information behind this request. And I don't see why salary is relevant to the question - if someone can't work full time then they can't, and what funds they have to survive on is a different issue. I find it very hard to believe that you know every part of the job of someone you have never met.

    I quite agree with the poster who pointed out that the attitude of colleagues can be a major barrier in getting people back to an appropriate level of work. I wouldn't discuss my health issues at work or want conjecture passed on, and one of the things I learnt in dealing with the situation for real is that there may well be background issues not apparent to colleagues.

    Occasional expressions of frustration at having to cover someone's work are understandable so long as they are raised in the appropriate way. Otherwise, as other posters have pointed out, the issue is between the individual and the employer and nobody else's business.

    maman wrote: »
    To return to the point in question.....

    I think the person concerned has the most amazing conditions of service. In my field we have 6 months full pay, 6 months half pay. Phased returns are rarely longer than a month...

    As he's being paid full time salary he should take a full week's leave.

    Same here, but as I stated earlier the HR advice was that the full time salary would be made up of the sick leave for the time not at work on medical advice, and only the remainder that they would have worked booked as annual leave.


    Rosa xx
    Debt free May 2016... DFW#2 in progress
    Campervan paid off summer '21... MFW progress tbc
  • euronorris
    euronorris Posts: 12,247 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper PPI Party Pooper
    Fire_Fox wrote: »
    Apology accepted! :p The context of post 46 is abundantly clear given what you intimated only five posts earlier.

    Now now, that's just your interpretation. It wasn't my intention to give that impression in Post 46, I was actually trying to make a separate point about not being able to just take someone at that word over the internet. But I appreciate it that it will have come accross differently.

    Bam Bam - I don't remember the specific content of every post I make. I don't have the memory storage available to do so! :rotfl:

    It happens, I'm human.

    Anyway, the OP has had the answer to the question, but I'm wondering if that was of any use to them? Or was it just curiosty?
    February wins: Theatre tickets
  • londonsurrey
    londonsurrey Posts: 2,444 Forumite
    Does anyone else keep on reading this thread title as "Please return to work"? :D
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