Advice on which new boiler to go for

nande2000

Hi, I've posted on here a few times about my heating predicament. After much investigation I have a list of options..any comments welcome as im stuck trying to make a decision.

To recap, the heating system I inherited when I bought the house is a solid fuel Stanley Range cooker converted to run on oil 13 years ago. It works ok, is bloody noisy and is really unsafe for a family with small children (as you can open the fire door and get direct access to the burner. Id also add that we are off the mains gas grid and I ideally want to get off oil.

Ok so here goes, the options are :

1. ASHP - I've ruled this out already as its far too expensive to install (£10k+), its pot luck as to whether it will work or not for our house and it looks to me like the Govt are going to remove it from the RHI.

2. Wood pellet boiler Stove in the house - I like the look of the Tundra Opal Aqua. Cons are it is expensive to install (£8k), there isnt much reliability data available in the UK, warranty is only 2 years, requires feeding once a day and Im losing space in the house. Pros are that wood pellets are cheaper than oil, more controllable and cleaner than logs and it could be quite lucrative in the long term with RHI.

3. Convert the Range cooker back to SF. Pros: Cheap to do, doesnt require any more space in the house and I have a free supply of wood logs for at least 2 years to feed it. Cons: Not very controllable, will be a lot of work to keep it lit and will probably make the kitchen very dusty. Possble that the boiler may pack in soon (the boiler is 20 years old)


4. Install a modern external Condensing System Oil boiler. Pros : about half the price of a wood pellet boiler to supply and install (£4k), very reliable, predictable, good warranty and support network Also frees up space in the house. Cons: Its oil, prices will only go up, probably doubling in the next 10 years. Also my oil tank is 13 years old and may need replacing soon (given new OFTEC guidelines this could be expensive)

4+ install an oil boiler as per option 4, but split the heating and DHW systems. Use the new oil boiler for CH only and use the cooker (converted back to SF) to heat the DHW.


5. Do nothing and carry on using the same system. - Not an option for me.


What would you do ?!

alleycat`

What is the like for like on fuel costs to burn through that extra £4K? (pellet v's oil?)

I'd like to know that and also the price variations in pellets v's oil over the last few years.

Once i'd looked at that i'd make a choice but i suspect oil is going to win as £4k is quite a lot of fuel to offset.

ASHP is out for me as i still don't trust the installations.

I'd consider looking at converting the Range as well if you have a free supply of wood but I'd have that as a secondary heat source / backup only.

Probably doesn't meet your criteria to get off oil but it seems the most logical way to go unless the pellet costs stack up quite well.

nande2000

I tend to agree, but what worries me with oil is another bill in 5 years time for another oil tank. The current OFTEC guidelines are much stricter than they were 13 years ago when my existing tank was installed. It's possibly another £1k to supply and install a new tank.

Wood pellet prices dont worry me so much. Bagged and delivered in one tonne loads they work out at about 5.2p/kwh, i.e. a little less than the current price of oil, plus you can buy when you want, not just wait for your tank to get low. Many of the installers will fix prices over 3 years if you enter into a contract with them to service the boiler.

[Deleted User]

If ASHP/GSHP are not an option and I wanted a programable/weather compensation system it would be a modern oil boiler. I'd also be looking at solar thermal and PV to take advantage of RHI/FITs and further reduce household bills. Consider a 2000lt oil tank so you don't have to wait for it to run down plus you can get cheaper prices for buying say 1000lt.

A must is also stoves to use up the free logs, perhaps even a boiler version linked in. The heat output is staggering once warmed up.

What I would not do is a pellet boiler. Personally not interested in manual feeding on top of stoves plus I know nobody that has one. And from what i hear it's almost no different in running costs to oil. I guess RHI is the clincher if the sums add up for you... I would also ditch the range.


The way we work it is the ASHP keeps all rooms at ~20c in the colder months which is great as the house is always occupied and in the evenings the stove is lit which boosts the three nearest rooms ~25c so nice and cosy. The FITs from the PV is a nice wee earner that way more than covers annual fuel costs plus reduces household bills.

Of course I've never seen your house nor lived in it so would probably do something different...:D Having had oil and LPG in the past I'd save up and make sure my house worked with an ASHP/fancoils. I say fancoils as retro fitting UFH into an old house is frought with issues and normal but oversized rads take up loads of wall space and run much less efficiently.

Certainly the Mits Ecodan is a simple ASHP to install as is supplied as a package with tank and controls. Work out the heating requirement as you would do for any heating system taking into consideration planned insulation measures. Use that info to size the fancoils. Plumb with the correct size of pipe which must be insulated. Set the heat curve, desired temp, DHW temp, setback temps i.e. overnight plus a few more basics. Think of the ecodan as just a boiler and it's hard to go wrong. Competent installers with loads of experience are out there...

nande2000

Yep, I already have PV and one 5kw log stove, but no roof space left for solar thermal. Ive done the sums for solar thermal and even if you ignore the hidden maintenance costs they just dont stack up.

I priced up linking the log stove into the heating system a while back via a dunsley or a H2 panel, but it was very expensive for small gain and just too complicated. One 'old school' plumber told me that link up systems are a quick way to get a divorce !

I was considering ASHP at one point, but I have a friend who has PV and a GSHP installed with UFH in a modern ultra insulated house; his electric bills are still gigantic. It is i'm afraid pot luck as to whether the systems work or not; and i really dont fancy those huge rads.

Pellet boilers do seem to be in the infant stage at the moment and costs seem to be unjustifiably high..Lots of companies who were geared up for ASHP seem to be jumping on the band wagon. There must be someone out there who has experience of an install...

[Deleted User]

Hi,

Have you come to a decision on what system fits the bill

Cheers

nande2000

Im almost there.

I found out this morning that whilst my Oil Tank is still under warranty the manufacturer (Balmoral Mouldings) was put into adminstration in 2006 to absolve them of any liability as there were many problems with the tanks leaking. I rang my insurance company and they are ok with it as legally I still have a warranty, but in reality for peace of mind I know I have to get the tank replaced at the same time I do the boiler.

There are just a few points i need to clarify to make my decision.

1. Is it possible to site a new Oil tank on my property given the new Oftec Regs?
2. What is the supply chain like for the Tundra Woodpellet boilers and what could possibly go wrong with them (and approx costs) ?


Im erring on the side of the oil boiler as I found out yesterday that there are only about 200 Tundra installs RHI compliant in the whole of the UK at the moment. Also installers seem confused on how the boilers work, some say I need a buffer tank or I lose efficiency, some say these boilers are designed to work without Buffer tanks.

If there is no space to site a new Oil tank the decision may be made for me.

Hutchch0920

A couple of points to throw into the equation...

I have you included the £950 government incentive you will receive for a wood pellet boiler?
Can you hang on till next summer to await the announcement of the domestic renewable heat incentive and the green deal? - These may swing the argument quite considerably.
Wood pellet boilers are still somewhat in their infancy in the UK, that is true, however one must consider their relative maturity on mainland Europe. Countries such as Sweden have around 50% renewable heat generation, which is mostly fuelled by wood.

I would suggest talking to an expert installer. Check out http://www.yougen.co.uk/ for some suggestions on who is good.

nande2000

That is a fair point and one I am considering. I could maybe buy just enough oil to get us through the winter then wait to see what happends on the RHI in March.

The other point that may sway things is finance. Getting my mortgage company to cough up some extra money to help me pay is proving difficult..again maybe the green deal next year will change things.

TiredGeek

As far as I'm concerned the green deal is poor as you pay interest on the "loan" at about 9% if I remember correctly. Makes it expensive in the long run.

If you go for ASHP, fit the much more expensive fan coil radiators. You won't lose all your wall space or have the sort of plumbing I have with my 39 rads

Everything has it's associated issues, ASHP/GSHP is fitting, pellets is not understood so dependant on finding a good fitter, oil is cost.
In your situation I'd get a new outdoor oil boiler, a new tank fitted in the same place as the old one (and don't tell anyone) and live with that for five years. After that time all the technologies will have matured a bit and be better understood, and possibly have come down in price to boot.

Good luck

nande2000

TiredGeek wrote: »

As far as I'm concerned the green deal is poor as you pay interest on the "loan" at about 9% if I remember correctly. Makes it expensive in the long run.

If you go for ASHP, fit the much more expensive fan coil radiators. You won't lose all your wall space or have the sort of plumbing I have with my 39 rads

Everything has it's associated issues, ASHP/GSHP is fitting, pellets is not understood so dependant on finding a good fitter, oil is cost.
In your situation I'd get a new outdoor oil boiler, a new tank fitted in the same place as the old one (and don't tell anyone) and live with that for five years. After that time all the technologies will have matured a bit and be better understood, and possibly have come down in price to boot.

Good luck

Keeping a new oil boiler for 5 years makes no sense as I estimate it will take at least 9 years to pay for itself. If I do it, it will be for the long haul (i.e. till it dies or oil becomes unaffordable). Then you have to consider the possibility of BioKerosene coming in at some point, but that means more money to alter the boiler and possbly a new tank

I think the green deal loans are supposed to be about 7.5% which is still high, but not as scary as 9%.


Maybe i'll wait one more winter ! The decision will be made before the end of Sept.