Cancelling an upgrade

lukegte

Good morning folks

I'm having a problem with Orange regarding my mobile phone account. On the 30th of July I upgraded my phone with Orange via their website. I paid £230 for the HTC One X and started a new 3 year contract, keeping my current £15-a-month plan.

I received the phone on the 31st of July. The phone stopped working (switched itself off, wouldn't switch back on and wouldn't respond to any chargers) and was declared faulty by Orange on the 6th of August. I received a brand new phone on the 7th. Yesterday, my phone broke again, exactly the same problem. I called Orange this morning and again, they declared it faulty, a replacement being deemed necessary. However, this time they would not replace my phone with a brand new one. It will be a refurbished phone!! Apparently, they will only send a brand new replacement for a faulty phone within the first 14 days of the contract. No exceptions. So my 2nd phone broke 14 days after I received it, but it was outside the first 14 days of my contract so I can't have a brand new phone (the two people I've spoken with this morning both advised me this is outlined in my T's&C's, but I certainly can't find it anywhere.)

So, as a hypothetical, let's say your brand new phone breaks 14 days after receiving it. You will get a brand new phone the next day. But if that brand new phone breaks the day after you received it, your replacement will be a reconditioned one. Is that ridiculous, or is that ridiculous?

I'm well aware the reconditioned phone should work fine, and I have nothing against them specifically, but I paid £230 and entered a new contract. It is not acceptable that I should now have to use a second-hand phone 23 days after receiving my initial phone and only 2 weeks after receiving a replacement.

I even asked them for a different model (I've previously been advised that after two phones have the same fault, a different phone can be issued) but they refused this too.

What I now want is to cancel the upgrade altogether. I want my money back and my contract end date changed to what it was before the upgrade.

Can anyone help me? What are my rights?

grumbler

lukegte wrote: »

.... I paid £230 for the HTC One X and started a new 3 year contract, keeping my current £15-a-month plan.

Very early upgrade? I think all new contracts are 2 years max.

...(the two people I've spoken with this morning both advised me this is outlined in my T's&C's, but I certainly can't find it anywhere.)

Ask the 'people' what T&C outline this and where exactly?

So, as a hypothetical, let's say your brand new phone breaks 14 days after receiving it. You will get a brand new phone the next day. But if that brand new phone breaks the day after you received it, your replacement will be a reconditioned one. Is that ridiculous, or is that ridiculous?

Unfortunately, the law (SOGA) that our well paid lawmakers were capable of producing is very vague. In fact it doesn't say anything about replacing with a brand new item even within 14 days, so it is up to the retailer's internal policy. According to the law, the retailer has to either repair or replace the item within reasonable time and without causing you significant inconvenience, and it is their choice whether to repair or to replace.

I even asked them for a different model (I've previously been advised that after two phones have the same fault, a different phone can be issued) but they refused this too.

Again, they can offer you a different model, but they have no obligations to do this.
Only, if repeated faults and replacements start causing you 'significant' inconvenience you can insist in getting a different model with similar specifications, but you will probably have to sue Orange as only a judge can decide what is really 'significant'

What I now want is to cancel the upgrade altogether.I want my money back and my contract end date changed to what it was before the upgrade.

Can anyone help me? What are my rights?

Unfrortunately, you have no rights under both SOGA and DSR. I don't know if Orange's internal policy for upgrades is more generous, but even if it is you have already missed the train.

lukegte

If I went for a two year contract, I would have had to pay £31 per month and a fee of £230 for the phone (totaling £974 over the length of the contract) or £41 per month with a free phone (£984). By renewing my current plan and contract length, I'm paying £770 over three years. I do enjoy saving money.

I can assure you, having worked for a mobile phone provider, it is usually beneficial to them to issue a Different Model Replacement where possible and if it is what the customer wants. It keeps the customer happy and saves sending out multiple replacements for an expensive handset (this particular phone has had many issues since it was introduced to the market and I am almost certain the replacement for my replacement will develop a fault some time soon, costing Orange and myself time and money.) I was merely pointing this out in my original message as I'd been advised I'd be able to have a DMR by one CSR, then refused it by another, an example of very poor customer service, which further added to my frustration.

Anyway, after speaking with the Citizens Advice consumer service, I can confirm that your response was accurate. I have no rights and will simply have to "man up" and move on. It's times like this I'm glad I'm just an irrelevant speck of cosmic dust.

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

Silk

I suppose thinking about it you could use the SGA clause for rejecting the replacement due to being faulty
ie. you have the right to reject a replacement if the phone was faulty on arrival...as you accepted a replacement which also turned out to be faulty it could revert back to an outstanding solution to the first purchase.
There is also an argument you could make regarding being fit for purpose.
It's not set in stone however so would require a bit of persistance by you to try to get it


If you paid the amount of £230 by credit card you will get assistance from the CC company with this.

Not sure this is going to assist with the contract situation being an upgrade though as it will complicate matters.

It will be best if you start using letters or email for communication if you have not already done so

Guys_Dad

There is one chink of light that you might wish to pursue. You paid £230 for the handset, rather than getting it free.

As such, you purchased a brand new handset. That failed within 14 days, as did its successor. Despite their t&c, which may or may not have some spurious paragraph about refurbished handsets, I would contact the Chief Exec's office and make that point.

In addition, go to mobiles.co.uk, carphonewarehouse or dialaphone or any reseller that sells refurbished handsets.

From their sites, print off any handset that is offered as both as new and refurbished. This will show that there is a different value between new and refurbished. Make this point in the email/letter - send the proof as well - and ask politely for a new handset or an equivalent value handset without what seems to be a generic fault.

Also look for the Orange Rep on here and send them a personal message making the same point.

Don't give up at this stage.

prowla

lukegte wrote: »

If I went for a two year contract, I would have had to pay £31 per month and a fee of £230 for the phone (totaling £974 over the length of the contract) or £41 per month with a free phone (£984). By renewing my current plan and contract length, I'm paying £770 over three years. I do enjoy saving money.

I'm not sure that taking a phone that has a 1 year guarantee on a 3 years contract is necessarily saving money.

Buzby

You would need to be explicitly offered a 'new for old' in order to benefit from such a replacement. That said, it is swings and roundabouts - a refurb will have been individually appraised and computer tested - new models are only sampled and rogue ones can slip through. On balance, I'd be happy with the latter as of having greater confidence that it matched the full specification.

As for saving money, you could have lost it at the end of week one and still be tied for 2 years, so the inducement is most certainly not saving you money, especially if you factor in the minimum term, and the likleyhood of you not using up the full bindle for each of the 24 months.

lukegte

prowla wrote: »

I'm not sure that taking a phone that has a 1 year guarantee on a 3 years contract is necessarily saving money.

Thank you prowla for your unique and challenging input, but I do believe my contract length and choice is not the matter of discussion and no-one's business but my own. It was certainly relevant to my post as I was responding to the previous poster's query.

As it happens, I get Orange insurance for free due to a friends and family offer, and this will last the duration of the contract. And since I used to work for a company offering mobile insurance, I have some expertise in making it work for my benefit. In addition to this, after 18 months, I will be able to have a brand new replacement as part of the contract.

I'm pretty sure this is a forum for people who want help and for those who have the know-how to go about giving that help. I'd like to point out that in this case, you're doing neither.

Guys_Dad

Did pick up one thing here, though http://www.orangeaccessories.co.uk/refurbished-mobile-phones.html

Now Orange only offer a 6 month warranty on refurbished handsets, whereas they offer 12 months by law on new ones. Again, a point worth pursuing with them as it tends to suggest that refurbished ones are not of the same standard as new ones.

lukegte

Thank you Guys Dad. Really helpful information. And I'm very grateful you took the time to delve a little deeper for me.

Providing evidence that a new phone and a refurbished one are two different products of differing value is a great idea. However, the Goods and Service act of 1982 states the replacement must be the same model, of similar age and free from defect. Hmmm... I will look further into this and if I think it's worth pursuing the matter, I'll let you know how things turn out.

smithers1981

Why not drop your phone down the toilet and then claim on your ORANGE insurance.