Would you go to prison for hiding savings?

SandraScarlett

Jennifer555 wrote: »

If you had a few thousand pounds ISA (say under 8000) that you always meant to be a pension but knew the council wouldn't understand or believe that. And if you decided to tell them after 10 years because you were too scared to do it before, would they send you to prison?

If you could prove that you have never once made a withdrawal from this account are they likely to let you have it for its intended use.

But why were you too scared to tell them before? Also, the council wouldn't understand because the rules they follow are black and white.

I'm sure millions of us would like to cherry pick the rules we would agree to follow, and ignore ones we don't like, but we can't. People on here aren't cheering as if you were at the gallows, but it's frustrating when your original question used the word savings and then you constantly deny that they are!

I hope you get this sorted out quickly, and that you can afford to repay the money you've been given in error, from your savings.

xx

duchy

Jennifer555 wrote: »

Yeah, I guess some would see it as stupid. Either that or very intelligent depending on how hypnotised you are.

Regarding being drawn into an argument. I did ask a simple question but I don't mind having been drawn into the discussion that followed. Except for the people screaming " send her to jail" and you're worried about public funds being wasted!! Baffled!

Oh stop the drama queen stuff

No-one is screaming -just trying to get it through your head that you ARE at risk of going to jail- if you don't stop playing the ostrich and get your affairs sorted-as well as the other consequences. Maybe you should stop flouncing and try thanking people for stopping you making even bigger mistakes than you already have !

tagq2

Isn't this exactly the sort of situation where a SIPP would be appropriate? You want a tax-free place to protect your savings long term, but you want something which you can't withdraw from until you reach a certain age.

There are all sorts of underlying assets you can hold in a SIPP, including cash, investments and property - I'm fairly sure you can even get rental income paid into a SIPP.

I have absolutely no idea how the means-tested benefits system treats that, but it would be worth finding out. Perhaps they'll always expect you to withdraw the maximum possible at the earliest time, but the earliest time will be 55 years of age.

I have learnt in the past week that the means-tested benefits system is a minefield, and I'm grateful that I'm not in the position today where I need to claim. It seems to involve a very odd philosophy where e.g. someone who pays out £100/month on Sky and drinks will down the road be helped more than someone who saved the money over time to, say, obtain education.

However, the justice system cares only about following the law, and not about the morality of the situation. OP, if it reached court then you'll be judged impartially according to the law. You will be sentenced, if found guilty, according to guidelines which will available somewhere on justice.gov.uk. I don't know about the definition of "honesty" for benefit cases, but for theft, it may be determined by the Ghosh test (link):

i) Would the defendant's activity be dishonest "according to the ordinary standards of reasonable and honest people"?

ii) Would the defendant know that what he was doing would be regarded as dishonest by those standards?

If "yes" to both, the defendant was dishonest.

I.e. it does not matter whether the defendant thought he was being dishonest according to his own standards, but whether they defendant knew that people in general would think that he was being dishonest. The judge in Ghosh gives the example of an anti-vivisectionist who frees animals from laboratories as someone who would be acting dishonestly in law.

There may be offences which do not require dishonesty. But they may have less impact on your life (e.g. job).

This is only information, however. Please seek legal advice.

downshifter98

Loving the very black and white views on here; although I agree that some fraud appears to have been committed, the amount involved and the form that it has taken mean that this should be resolved without prison (I reckon they are full up with the really bad people) - the really funny thing is if you jailed everyone who had hidden money away you would have half of the over 65's in the country locked-up; maybe I just know a lot of dodgy older people but many of them have either stacks of cash under their mattress or have managed to hide thousands away all over the place ie other family members or have just refused to reveal all savings accounts (these often only get spotted when the owner dies and the DWP do an automatic check of estates) - I don't condone any of this, of course, but the system punishes thrift so much that it's hardly surprising that people 'play' the system - and the amounts involved are probably not too dissimilar to the amount mentioned by the op ie a few thousand that perhaps just push people over what are very low limits. I think the op should take on board what is being said but should ignore the more extreme comments re prison and what a bad person she is - none of us are perfect!

dandelionclock30

I wish people would stop saying shes at risk of going to jail, no shes not. 100%. Its not right or funny to be winding someone up with misinformation like this. For all you lot know she might have mental health problems or be very vulnerable and that type of threat could push a vulnerable person over the edge.

She may or may not be prosecuted, but will have to pay it back and be fined at the most.

Chrissiew

It's unfortunate that some have to be nasty, that some feel the need to scare the living hell out of someone by saying she might go to prison, I'm pretty sure the OP knows how much tax she pays, after all she's the one who's paying it, yet some are basically saying she's a liar and she doesn't pay a lot of tax, how the hell do they know when they are not there?

You cannot come on this forum and ask for help, ask a question or just want somewhere to relate your fears because although you do get some good advice and help you also get bullied and disrespected.

Jennifer555

I really do appreciate the helpful and friendly posts. Thank-you.

xylophone

I'm pretty sure the OP knows how much tax she pays, after all she's the one who's paying it

Indeed - and if she had done the research into pensions she claims she had done, she would have known that tax relief is available and that it might have been possible to reduce her income/capital to the point where she could legally have claimed means tested benefits?

princessdon

Chrissiew wrote: »

It's unfortunate that some have to be nasty, that some feel the need to scare the living hell out of someone by saying she might go to prison, I'm pretty sure the OP knows how much tax she pays, after all she's the one who's paying it, yet some are basically saying she's a liar and she doesn't pay a lot of tax, how the hell do they know when they are not there?

You cannot come on this forum and ask for help, ask a question or just want somewhere to relate your fears because although you do get some good advice and help you also get bullied and disrespected.

So you can now claim benefits on a high wage that attracts a lot of tax?

Given your thread - you know that isn't true, you can't have a large income and claim HB, since Income Tax is based on Income they can't be paying a "huge amount" - though they may certainly have done so in the past.

Op is a tax payer and clearly works hard - I have never disputed that, but there are ways to minimise tax and save for your future legally. Not use an ISA then claim to have no money and rely on benefits.

tescobabe69

Jennifer555 wrote: »

. Except for the people screaming " send her to jail" and you're worried about public funds being wasted!! Baffled!

You think she cares about public funds?
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=55098917&postcount=44

Not that bothered IMHO.

If you're her mate its OK, its fine to criticize a few quid HB but if your mate has been screwing the system for 20 years just keep mum.
I feel sure there must be a word to describe that.