Would you go to prison for hiding savings?

sarahg1969

If the council are investigating, they will find all of your accounts without you telling them. They will be able to access your full credit file. The Data Protection Act allows them to do so for the purposes of investigating a crime.

lilibet1

You will not go to prison for this. Anyone that says you will is wrong. Yes in theory it could happen but it won't, I have seen people claiming in the 40,000's and they didn't get sent to prison when IMO they should have.

What you decide to do is upto you but scare mongering on here is silly.

leveller2911

princessdon wrote: »

I disagree - OP has identified very clearly the difference. If it was a pension she/he CAN'T access it (till of an age).




Just an opinion but the problem is the Private Pension system is in a complete mess and in particular annuity rates for the self employed.Annuity rates have dropped by around 50% in the last 10-12 yrs.This together with the fact that successive Governments couldn't keep their greasy mits off the pension schemes has had the effect that the Public has lost faith in all the schemes.

People are (quite rightly IMO) now providing for their retirement through other means such as choosing their own investments(classic cars,gold,antiques,cash,ISA,s etc). The downside is these "savings" do not have a pension wrapper ,so are seen as savings and not a pension.

Which is worse someone who works hard,pays taxes and decides to invest for their retirement in ways other than pensions,ISA,s etc or someone who has not worked ,sponged off the state and gets the full pension credit when they reach retirement age?.

I see nothing wrong with people who have worked hard,paid into the system ,saved hard and keep their savings as their "retirement fund" and claim benefits for being out of work as long as its not long term.

I have respect for people who have made the effort and put the hours in.I understand this can be abused but those who choose other ways in which to provide for their retirement should not be penalised.

Jennifer555

princessdon wrote: »

I disagree - OP has identified very clearly the difference. If it was a pension she/he CAN'T access it (till of an age). You can't use it to "dip in and out of" - therefore if you need it to pay your rent, you'd be stuffed as you can't get the money.

Their own words - their savings have fluctuated between over £16K to now 8K - they have dipped in them when they wanted to.

That is the reason for the difference - and that is why is itsn't the "wrong" type of account.

Because of the accessibility reason.

No, no the £7000 ISA (pension) account has never ever been dipped in or out of. And I just wouldn't do that as I have always meant it to be a pension.

Jennifer555

thistledome wrote: »

If OP had the same £8k in a pension fund rather than an ISA then they wouldn't be committing fraud. An £8k pension fund would be useless and I can understand why the OP feels that it's unfair. No need for the nasty comments from a couple of posters. The country isn't on it's knees because of people like the OP and her few thousand quid in the "wrong" type of account.

If she had a few million hidden away I'd agree she deserves a jail sentence, but I think she is a victim of a badly thought out law. In a pension or in an ISA, £8k is not a great deal of money.

Thank you so much Thistledome, that is exactly how I feel about the whole thing.

marybelle01

Jennifer555 wrote: »

And no matter who tells me any different, the courts or you, its NOT savings its a pension. I know that and I am not ashamed of it hence my openess. It is just all the trigger around rules/regs and law that made me wonder about telling them about it but if any of them are anything like you I may think twice.

I am sorry but you appear to be living on a different planet than everybody else. I don't know whether you will go to prison, and personally I hope not, because unlike most people around I get to spend a fair bit of time in them and I wouldn't wish it on most people. But your savings ARE NOT A PENSION PLAN. What you think of them as and what they are are not the same thing at all. You are not being open - you are being delusional! And you weren't exactly being open at all - it took you until the eleventh post to mention that there was another account you hadn't declared and that they are now investigating that one. You may have done the right thing in telling them before they found it - but ISA's attract tax benefits and are recorded in the official system, so there is a very good chance that their investigations will now turn up that you have other savings you haven't told them about. Do you honestly think that the fact you told them about one accounts and conveniently forgot the others will make any difference to whether they consider this benefit fraud? No it won't - because it will look all the more like you are deliberately hiding this money, which you are!

You may not be able to avoid some form of criminal record for this, but if you want to play games and continue to hide money when you know you should not, then you are the one who is risking a prison sentence being considered. They are not doing this to you - you are doing it to yourself.

princessdon

I am not saying I disagree that people will invest in an ISA v a Pension for their own reasons.

Point is they are accessbile - I feel farily certain if pensions were accessible they'd take those into account.

Two "other perspectives".

A family with 1 child earning £26k (wife gave up work as childcare too high), have zero left at the end of each month. not a penny to save, no luxuries etc. Their tax is going to fund someone with savings - whilst they can't afford to save (maybe even taking payday loans if their washer breaks etc).

Another family - looses their job - Have £100K is savings - for their pension - should they get benefits too?

The rules are there - we don't make them we follow them.

ISA's are not recognised as a pension and as such need to be declared, whether I agree ISA's should be able to "put away until age 65 and not touchable - like they do with Junior isa's and age 18 is another topic.

End of the day they are not pensions and need declared

gravitytolls

sarahg1969 wrote: »

If the council are investigating, they will find all of your accounts without you telling them. They will be able to access your full credit file. The Data Protection Act allows them to do so for the purposes of investigating a crime.

Mmm, tis true. We are entitled to a small amount of CTB and a couple of years after filling the forms in, they suspended our claim until I provided details of two accounts.

I didn't have a clue what they were and the council had to tell me they were trustee accounts in the names of two of the children and give me the account numbers so the BS could give me a printout of the non existent savings for their department.

They knew about accounts that had been in hibernation for so long I forgot they existed!

As for prison ..... well, the sister in law of a close friend spent half of a sic month sentence for benefit fraud. She didn't inform anyone that she was married, divorced or had savings from her p/t job. Sure has made life much harder for her since.

Cornish_piskie

Jennifer555 wrote: »

Just a small amount of housing benefit. Nothing else. I am trying so hard to get off housing benefit but difficult to do with a very low and variable income. The only reason I had that money in the first place is that I am someone who has never really cared about money/material things and didn't shop - literally hardly ever. Also anxiety disorders made it difficult. I thought at the time I could blow this on a car or put it away for my future and forget about it. I am a really honest person and so this has just started eating at me recently. There is a lot of judgment on here without knowing anything about the person.

Its just that pensions for self-employed are so hard to understand (and not trustworthy from what I understand) and if you really don't want to pay regularly into one it seems much more sensible to use an ISA to have a bit of cash for your future. Prison just seems so harsh and even a criminal record does. I'm almost 40 now and I would have to start again with nothing for my future.

No you aren't :cool:

You wanted your housing benefit and to build up a rather nice nest egg.

If, by the other posters' calculations above that you might have only been overpaid £8 per week, and yet you have amassed £7k in your ISA plus up to (at times by your admission) a further £9k + in other savings why on earth did you claim the housing benefit and not declared the savings??? You could have paid your rent, still claimed some HB (within the times that you were under £6k then between £6k - £16k and still saved for your *cough* pension.

You've been greedy IMHO

Jennifer555

leveller2911 wrote: »

princessdon wrote: »

I disagree - OP has identified very clearly the difference. If it was a pension she/he CAN'T access it (till of an age).




Just an opinion but the problem is the Private Pension system is in a complete mess and in particular annuity rates for the self employed.Annuity rates have dropped by around 50% in the last 10-12 yrs.This together with the fact that successive Governments couldn't keep their greasy mits off the pension schemes has had the effect that the Public has lost faith in all the schemes.

People are (quite rightly IMO) now providing for their retirement through other means such as choosing their own investments(classic cars,gold,antiques,cash etc). The downside is these "savings" do not have a pension wrapper ,so are seen as savings and not a pension.

Which is worse someone who works hard,pays taxes and decides to invest for their retirement in ways other than pensions,ISA,s etc or someone who has not worked ,sponged off the state and gets the full pension credit when they reach retirement age?.

I see nothing wrong with people who have worked hard,paid into the system ,saved hard and keep their savings as their "retirement fund" and claim benefits for being out of work as long as its not long term.

I have respect for people who have made the effort and put the hours in.I understand this can be abused but those who choose other ways in which to provide for their retirement should not be penalised.

I agree. And I too pay loads of tax.
BTW I am not claiming benefits for being out of work, just claiming a small amount of HB because of low income.

I am amazed by the ones on here saying they hope I go to prison. Interesting.