Unfair dismissal of an Apprentice

NikNox

Sambucus_Nigra wrote: »

Good. The employer will have had a fair amount of grant money from the CITB to pay for the Apprenticeship, so speak to the CITB [he should have been given a NET adviser as a contact, so get in touch in the morning and make waves].

Make sure his apprenticeship is transferred so that he can complete, just in case it hasn't been done. It needs doing 'officially' thought the NET adviserm not just through the college.

Would his tutor be able to sort that out, as the Training and Apprenticeship Advisor at the College (he was the guy who put him up for it in the first place, and rang me beforehand to ask my permission as it would mean leaving his Diploma Course)? My son has emailed him, but as yet hasn't heard back, but he will ring him anyway and discuss completing his NVQ as he is very keen to have this qualification under his belt. But, the new job he's landed is via an agency, sub-contracting with a large construction company locally who have a six month contract. He went to see the boss man of the construction company today to talk things through, and was told that once this six month contract is finished (December time) they have another one starting immediately afterwards in the same place (Army base) and told him that if he works hard he'll be kept on for that too. But his actual employer is an agency. Do you think that if he gives all those details to the College they'll be able to liaise with the appropriate people?

NikNox

Oh, no NET advisor as far as I'm aware. Again, I'm hoping the tutor can advise on this. We're away from Tuesday for a week though, so might have to deal with it when we get back. Can't tomorrow as I have a 10 hour shift at work. No rest for the wicked!

NikNox

Dunroamin wrote: »

Was he employed by the company or was he actually a sub contractor?

He was employed by the company. They have a large maintenance contract with the local housing association, so they contracted him out to them at a rate of £40ph as a fully qualified chippy. He earned £3ph.

Sambucus_Nigra

NikNox wrote: »

Oh, no NET advisor as far as I'm aware. Again, I'm hoping the tutor can advise on this. We're away from Tuesday for a week though, so might have to deal with it when we get back. Can't tomorrow as I have a 10 hour shift at work. No rest for the wicked!

Was the apprenticeship through the CITB at all? Even if not, it's an official agreement and can't just be ended like a 'normal' job can.

NikNox

:j

Sambucus_Nigra wrote: »

Was the apprenticeship through the CITB at all? Even if not, it's an official agreement and can't just be ended like a 'normal' job can.

I don't think so, but cannot be completely sure. It certainly doesn't ring any bells, but that doesn't mean much (a lot's happened in the past 2 years!).

I might actually ring the tutor myself tomorrow in my lunch hour, because I don't think he's aware my son has been dismissed.

hcb42

NikNox wrote: »

He was employed by the company. They have a large maintenance contract with the local housing association, so they contracted him out to them at a rate of £40ph as a fully qualified chippy. He earned £3ph.

what they charge him out for is not really relevant to unfair dismissal here. I used to get charged out at £1000 a day in the good old days, I assure you I didnt earn that!

If he is pursuing it, stick to the process and only the relevant facts, as this is all the tribunal will be interested in, their commercial agreement is not really relevant to whether he was dismissed fairly or unfairly

gibson123

NikNox wrote: »

The company has the maintenance contract for the local housing association,

There is more than one way to skin a cat.

This is the very important point in this thread. Go speak to your local Councillor about the type of employment practises of contractors working in the housing association.

Whilst I think that your son has been treated unfairly and that the employer should be sanctioned, there is very little value in this for your son, beyond seeing justice done. Now we all like to feel like we should unhold rights however if this could be to the detriment of the person complaining and I think it could, it is too big a burden for a person starting their career. Let the ET go, complain to the college, the local Council and the Housing association, keep your son out of it.... good luck

NikNox

hcb42 wrote: »

what they charge him out for is not really relevant to unfair dismissal here. I used to get charged out at £1000 a day in the good old days, I assure you I didnt earn that!

If he is pursuing it, stick to the process and only the relevant facts, as this is all the tribunal will be interested in, their commercial agreement is not really relevant to whether he was dismissed fairly or unfairly

Oh I know, it wouldn't be mention. Employers make money from their employees, that's how it is. It is wrong that they were supplying him as a fully qualified chippy, but that one will rest.

NikNox

Hi all,

Just thought I'd update you on this situation.

Firstly, I have been in contact with the College, and my son can resume his NVQ at the beginning of September, no problem. The main issue with his portfolio was that it wasn't presented very well (typical teenage lad!), and he wasn't the only one apparently. His tutor did recognise that he wasn't able to submit photographic evidence due to working alone, but said that could all be dealt with by presenting detailed statements. So, all is good there on the NVQ front. But, the tutor was dismayed as to the reasons why he was dismissed, and urged me to chase up a reply from the employer, and said if I didn't hear by today then he would be chasing them up. We heard yesterday, they wrote and enclosed copies of four letters that were given to my son from January this year up until July. Each one told him he had committed 'offences', described as sub-standard work, and in each letter they stated that it was a written warning for poor job performance. Each letter listed 2 'offences', which were things like incorrect hinges attached to cupboards, forgetting to place a rubber seal around a glazed unit ... stuff that I would imagine a person in an Apprenticeship or trainee position would almost be expected to do. Each subsequent letter after the first one started off with the sentence 'as a result of repeated offences of poor job performance, this letter is a written warning and could lead to termination of your employment if no improvement is seen within 2 weeks'. The letters were dated in January, February, June and the last one, terminating his employment was in July. The last one again listed 2 'offences', one of which was not completing his NVQ in time, and terminating his employment.

I spoke at length with my son last night, and asked him if at any time he was offered more training and/or supervision. He said he was not. He was told on one occasion that another worker had been sent to 'fix' what he'd done wrong, and he said 'it would have been good if I could have gone with him to see how to do it properly' and he was told 'well, too late now isn't it, and you have been warned'.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but an Apprentice making minor mistakes, certainly nothing that even comes close to gross misconduct, is par for the course for an Apprentice? Don't we all make mistakes at work? Goodness me if people were given written warnings for every little mistake they made, there wouldn't be a work force anywhere!

I have emailed his tutor with the response from the employer, and am waiting to hear back from him. We won't be taking it any further in respect of unfair dismissal (although I will be asking them to define their use of the word 'offence' as I find it 'offensive'), but hopefully the tutor won't send anymore fledgling carpenters this company's way, so at least we can prevent this treatment from happening to anyone else.

My son had an interview on Monday and was successful for a trainee position with another carpentry company, so he's happy.

Maestro.

NikNox wrote: »

Hi all

My son, 19, was dismissed last week from his 4 year Apprenticeship. He was working for a local carpentry firm, and was originally put forward for the Apprenticeship by his college where he was halfway through a 2 year City & Guilds Carpentry Course. He was taken on by the company and continued his studies via NVQ with a College Assessor.

For the past year, he had been working on his own for this company, being contracted out as a chippy, but still only being paid an Apprentices wage. He also had his own van, which I guess could be considered a perk. Sadly, he failed the last aspect of his NVQ because he could not provide work based evidence in the form of photographs of him working on certain things, because he was working on his own and had no-one to take the photographs of him. He also had to provide evidence of him doing a certain aspect of roofing work, but he had not done any roofing work so could not provide that evidence.

His tutor at College emailed his employer and stated that my son had failed this specific part of his NVQ, but stated that they would continue to work with him on a one to one basis to ensure he completed his NVQ and his Apprenticeship.

That morning, he went to work, was sent out on a job and then asked to go back to the office once the job was completed. It was then he was told he was dismissed with immediate effect, and was handed a copy of the email from the college. He was told he was being dismissed because he'd failed this part of his NVQ, and also told that there probably wasn't enough work for him anyway. His employer told him he was an excellent employee, very hard working, very reliable, excellent time keeping and a very nice young man, and said they would provide excellent references for him. He left his employment immediately after 2 years.

Now, he has actually landed himself another job, but we, as his family are concerned that this dismissal was unfair and that he could be entitled to take it to tribunal. Unfortunately, the dopey sod has left his contract in his old work van, so I don't have it to look at, but we do have the email from the College, which does state that they would continue to work with him to ensure he completed his NVQ and Apprenticeship, and it seems as if these are the grounds on which he has been dismissed.

Any advice? Words of wisdom?

Thanks

Unfortunately this is all too common with apprenticeships. It's crazy cheap labour - and when it's almost done, they're tossed out. Happens loads of places.