Unfair dismissal of an Apprentice

NikNox

Hi all

My son, 19, was dismissed last week from his 4 year Apprenticeship. He was working for a local carpentry firm, and was originally put forward for the Apprenticeship by his college where he was halfway through a 2 year City & Guilds Carpentry Course. He was taken on by the company and continued his studies via NVQ with a College Assessor.

For the past year, he had been working on his own for this company, being contracted out as a chippy, but still only being paid an Apprentices wage. He also had his own van, which I guess could be considered a perk. Sadly, he failed the last aspect of his NVQ because he could not provide work based evidence in the form of photographs of him working on certain things, because he was working on his own and had no-one to take the photographs of him. He also had to provide evidence of him doing a certain aspect of roofing work, but he had not done any roofing work so could not provide that evidence.

His tutor at College emailed his employer and stated that my son had failed this specific part of his NVQ, but stated that they would continue to work with him on a one to one basis to ensure he completed his NVQ and his Apprenticeship.

That morning, he went to work, was sent out on a job and then asked to go back to the office once the job was completed. It was then he was told he was dismissed with immediate effect, and was handed a copy of the email from the college. He was told he was being dismissed because he'd failed this part of his NVQ, and also told that there probably wasn't enough work for him anyway. His employer told him he was an excellent employee, very hard working, very reliable, excellent time keeping and a very nice young man, and said they would provide excellent references for him. He left his employment immediately after 2 years.

Now, he has actually landed himself another job, but we, as his family are concerned that this dismissal was unfair and that he could be entitled to take it to tribunal. Unfortunately, the dopey sod has left his contract in his old work van, so I don't have it to look at, but we do have the email from the College, which does state that they would continue to work with him to ensure he completed his NVQ and Apprenticeship, and it seems as if these are the grounds on which he has been dismissed.

Any advice? Words of wisdom?

Thanks

Savvy_Sue

Words of wisdom? Move on, good for him getting another job.

If YOUR SON wishes to take this further, he could start with the college: they may have a copy of his contract. He could also ask the employer if anything left in his van has been kept and if so please could he retrieve his personal possessions.

But I am not entirely clear that this is 'unfair', nor whether an apprentice has the same employment protection as a 'normal' employee.

NikNox

It is great that he has another job, but my belief is that young people should be employed and treated fairly. They are the workforce of the future, and any young person embarking on an Apprenticeship should be commended, not least because the wages are so poor! He was being sub-contracted out at £40 per hour to the company, but was being paid £3 per hour. Okay, that's normal practice and no-one would ever say that his company shouldn't have earned money from him, but he was being contracted out as a qualified carpenter when he isn't qualified. We've had a chat, and he said he's had 'warnings' in the past, but these have been for not fitting the correct latch on a door, a badly hung door and other such mistakes. These are mistakes that anyone learning the trade could easily make, and had he been mentored properly, then would have been told at the time that he was doing it wrong. That's what learning is all about, and these are hardly misdemeanours worthy of dismissal. He was dismissed on the spot (after they'd got one more job out of him), and from what I have gleaned from the internet, instand dismissal is something that happens where there is gross misconduct, and fitting the wrong latch does not constitute that.

This is about making a point, that we believe he has been treated unfairly. I'm not familiar with employment law by any means, but you can't just go around sacking people for no good reason. Even if they argue that he's had 'written warnings', these warnings are for minor mistakes that I would think an Apprentice would almost be expected to make.

ILW

He's 19, getting a reputation within the industry of his mum chasing around fighting battles for him, will do him no favours at all.

mynameistallulah

ILW wrote: »

He's 19, getting a reputation within the industry of his mum chasing around fighting battles for him, will do him no favours at all.

I agree, and getting a reputation for taking employers to tribunal will definitely not help!

NikNox

Erm, I may be finding out information, but he's the one who will be doing the actual chasing. The email was sent from his email address. Sorry, but he may be 19, but he's my son and I will support him to the bitter end.

Taadaa

He probably should have raised concerns about not being supervised whilst he was there. I wonder as well whether at interim reviews the NVQ assessor has raised the question of him gathering the evidence he needed. If full time employment was on the basis of him being qualified, and no concerns were raised about him working alone, you don't have his contract either, then I don't think there would be much of a case to answer really. His employer could state that they have followed procedure, and you cannot prove otherwise. And as already has been pointed out, you might be making more trouble for him than will gain from pursuing it.

bargainbetty

Look at it dispassionately from a tribunal's viewpoint.

Apprentice working on solo jobs makes mistakes - receives warnings, verbal and written.
Apprentice fails NVQ level due to lack of work evidence. Employer is advised that the college will help him pass this level but what effect might this have? (Delays, costs to employer etc).

Employer decides that the apprentice is not for them. Usually, under the terms of most training contracts that involve college attendance/coursework, there is a clause that allows the employer to terminate if the employee fails to meet the academic criteria.

I know you want to support him to the bitter end, but you might do him more favours by helping him ensure his next employers do give him the training and support he needs to get his qualifications, and not send him out untrained. It's a rough lesson, but on paper they are most likely to have legal cover on this.

NikNox

He didnt' raise concerns with his Assessor, and had 5 different ones during a six month period, because it was only when he was dismissed and was talking to people about it that friends and family raised the question of why he was working alone. You're right, without the contract we don't know if they were acting correctly or not, and it may well be written into it that he could be dismissed for failing to complete his NVQ in time. But, the college emailed his employer saying that they would be happy to continue working with him on a one to one basis to ensure he completed his NVQ and Apprenticeship, and I would have thought that if they thought it was a dismissal offence, they wouldn't have offered to keep working with him.

We shall see I suppose. I don't understand however why people think that pursuing this and trying to find out if he was unfairly dismissed or not could make more trouble for him? Surely, in these days of recession and high youth unemployment, the rights of young people in work should be upheld (if indeed his rights have been breached). Sorry, but I will always encourage my kids to fight for what's fair.

NikNox

bargainbetty wrote: »

Look at it dispassionately from a tribunal's viewpoint.

Apprentice working on solo jobs makes mistakes - receives warnings, verbal and written.
Apprentice fails NVQ level due to lack of work evidence. Employer is advised that the college will help him pass this level but what effect might this have? (Delays, costs to employer etc).

Employer decides that the apprentice is not for them. Usually, under the terms of most training contracts that involve college attendance/coursework, there is a clause that allows the employer to terminate if the employee fails to meet the academic criteria.

I know you want to support him to the bitter end, but you might do him more favours by helping him ensure his next employers do give him the training and support he needs to get his qualifications, and not send him out untrained. It's a rough lesson, but on paper they are most likely to have legal cover on this.

Thanks, best reply so far. And I agree. He only had to attend College in the last year for an hour every month to meet with his assessor, and that was it. He was treated as a full member of staff, having his own jobs and van, and was even placed on call one week out of every 5 on a rota system. He had not been supervised for over a year and was, for all intents and purposes, being contracted out as a fully qualified carpenter. Maybe that's correct, I don't know, this is what we're trying to find out. Once the information requested is gathered we will have a better picture of what's happened, and if his rights have not been breached then fair enough, nuff said. But, I stand by what I said that young people deserve to be treated fairly in the workplace. If young people aren't treated fairly then that gives them a pretty poor impression of employment doesn't it?

He knows he cannot continue in his chosen career without the NVQ or his diploma, so that needs to be sorted out too, and in the meantime he can knuckle down and work to earn money. He's doing his CSCS on Monday, which his new employers (an Agency) have paid for, and will hopefully start work on site on Tuesday.

mynameistallulah

No one has suggested that young people do not deserve to be treated fairly. However making waves at the beginning of your career, and in a relatively closed industry, will render any experience and qualifications worthless. No one wants to employ a troublemaker.