What's the cheapest way to run my heating?

faerie~spangles

The boiler is off.

I presume both the dishwasher and washing machine are coldfill. S'pose I should read the manuals.

E.T.A. aren't most modern appliances?

Avoriaz

faerie~spangles wrote: »

I learned a lot reading this thread.

I have a question or two...

1) Am I saving money by not heating my domestic water supply? I have a dishwasher, washing machine and electric shower.

2) What temperature should I set my boiler to in order not to waste gas and money?

1) You save money by not using gas or electricity but presumably you need hot water for washing at your bathroom basin and washing up in the kitchen etc. Not having any stored or instant hot water for that would be a pain, even if it does cost less.

Most modern dishwashers and washing machines are cold fill only. Are yours hot and cold fill? If they are my advice is to convert them to cold fill only, normally a simple process. That saves heat losses in the often very long pipe runs supplying the machine. Even hot fill machines use the cold water only except on the very hottest washes.

No doubt someone will tell you the exact opposite.

2) That depends on many variables and there is no ideal short answer. Your boiler manual is a good place to look for advice. I set mine at about 55 in summer and 60 to 65 in winter. I might turn it up in extremely cold weather.

Don't set it so high that you risk burning yourself on your radiators or so low that it doesn't heat your hot water enough or doesn't supply enough heat to the radiators to heat the house. Otherwise somewhere in the middle range, a bit higher in winter and a bit lower in summer is probably fine.

Again there will be those who say that is a load of rubbish and I am completely wrong.

I don't care.

Avoriaz

faerie~spangles wrote: »

The boiler is off.

I presume both the dishwasher and washing machine are coldfill. S'pose I should read the manuals.

E.T.A. aren't most modern appliances?

Sorry FS, I deleted my post to make a few changes and reposted it so it now appears below your post and not above.

Very confusing.

faerie~spangles

Avoriaz wrote: »

Sorry FS, I deleted my post to make a few changes and reposted it so it now appears below your post and not above.

Very confusing.

I had noticed:rotfl:

cyclonebri1

Avoriaz wrote: »

I'm keeping my house warm with all the energy from your huffing and puffing.


Seriously, the thread is only kept alive for you when you read it or you post in it.

Just stop reading and posting if it bothers you.

I won't be offended.

Errr frying pan calling kettle black !!! there I think ??

There's a fair bit of wind coming from your direction and it's got too darn heated for anyone to come out looking anyying other than simply argumentative.

I find you mildly amusing that's, so I stay thank you. :T

TimBuckTeeth

StuC75 wrote: »

.....
analogy being that the pan of water is 'simmering' (before returning to boil - shorter temperature range to cover) rather than being allowed to return to room temperature (larger range to then be covered).. Is a car more efficient driving at constant 50 mph, or stop starting between 0&70 (notice fuel efficiency always quoted on a constant load?)...
...
...

It is interesting that a car can actually use less fuel by accelerating hard to 70 mph then coasting to a stop then repeating. It is not practical and very annoying for anyone following, but the wind resistance drops with the speed, as in the analogy the temperature loss drops with falling internal temperature.
When nobody is inside it is not sensible to leave the heating on or to leave the car running at 50mph, maybe for different reasons!

Avoriaz wrote: »

.....
Even the spiders and insects in there generate a tiny bit of heat. Houses may even also contain small amounts of radioactive material that generate tiny amounts of heat.
.....

I like the idea of spiders reducing my heating bill, how many do you think it would need to heat an average house? . And any tips on attracting them?
Not so keen on introducing radioactive materials into the home!

ListysDad

Well what a todo!

Having trawled through that lot I'm not sure the OPs question was really ever answered so I'm going to lob in my two penneth.

The answer is... it depends.

I cannot recall what boiler you have. All I recall is that its a condensing one. With that in mind, the very first thing I'd say is to run it as efficiently (cheaply) as possible splash out on decent controller if you have only a thermostat and std programmer.

What I mean by decent controller is an optimiser/compensator. I'll explain. An optimiser is a time clock that alters its start and stop time continually depending on how it senses conditions to be at that point in time. So, typically we set time clocks to come on at say 6 am if we are to be up at 8. This is so we can guarantee that the place will be toastie when its really chilly outside. If however its just nippy outside then by starting at 6am the house reaches the temp you need at say 7am. This means you 'waste' a whole hr of heating! If, like the past few years its been even colder, then starting at 6 still leaves you cold when you get up at 8.

The optimiser measures the internal temp and outside temp and 'learns' how your house and boiler respond under different heating needs conditions. This means it will start the boiler at just the right time so when you emerge from your pit its nice and toastie.

Similarly, you have your heating go off at night. The optimiser looks at the temps again and works out if it can shut the boiler down early so you are still ok when you toddle off to bed.

Compensation. Boilers are typically set up so you get a 70degs C flow temperature. These allows the maximum heat into the space to heat it up quickly. Again we set things up to cope with the ccccoldest of days. If the day is just a bit nippy then having the heat through the rads that hi means our homes actually go over the temp we have set (its called overshoot). This is a waste of money. So, compensation alters the temperature of the water going round our radiators so that just enough heat is going into the space and we waste very little indeed.

Typically, also, these controls have settings that stop teh boiler from firing at all if teh temperature OUTSIDE is over a certain level. So, when its a tiny bit nippy inside but outside is fine you're forced to put on a jumper as no amount of stat juggling will work!

The last thing they all have is offset. What this is is the ability to alter the temperature being displayed so that it reflects the comfort conditions. What I mean by that is if the stat in the hall is set to 18 bu t you've found that to be the correct setting for your sitting room to be comfortable you can alter it so it reads 21 (or what ever). This simply means the displayed temperature is more reflective of your actual conditions.

All of these later starts and earlier shut off save you considerable money. Typically you get payback in two years.

Lastly, for the pedants among us, there are many other things that will impact your cost of running - including the already done to death should I run it 24/7 debate. Oh by the way if you google academic papers you will see that was debunked quite a time ago.

You cannot have toastie comfort without cost. Run it 24/7 if comfort is your goal but on/off if you want to save money.

And finally, as someone famous once said, frost protection. To save money you insulate your house. Just be aware that any pipes you then have in your loft are then at serious risk as you will have effectively moved them 'outside'. The grey insulation (polyethelene) physically cannot protect them. Only trace heating and the black (nitrile) insulation can guarantee to do that.

Enjoy.

VoucherMan

ListysDad wrote: »

I'm not sure the OPs question was really ever answered

A brave comment given some of the previous remarks on here!

But unless the op returns to comment I doubt we'll find out.

Out of curiosity how much is an optimiser/compensator? Never heard of them before and a quick Google search suggests an average price of about £500.

You'd need a heck of a lot of fuel saving for that to pay for itself.

Leif

VoucherMan wrote: »

A brave comment given some of the previous remarks on here!

Indeed, however, he did add new information which is informative and helpful, and certainly does add to the answers given, rather than just repeating what has been said many many many many many times.

cyclonebri1

Avoriaz wrote: »

I didn't dismiss other posts. I said there was conflicting advice.

A very different thing.

Can we please leave it there and move on.

Well at least you get the message, bit late but :T:T;)