Arrogant cyclists

custardy

Dave_C wrote: »

My mistake, I wasn't very clear that I was replying to the overall safety of mixing cars and bikes on the same road structure, not one or the other.:(

In the same post I did point out the more important sustainable safety. This is where safety of vulnerable road users (cyclists and pedestrians) is "built-in" to the system, not bolted on as an afterthought.

I get so frustrated at the UK, where too many cyclists are still being killed, especially on urban roads. At some point in the near future, when fossil fuel becomes more expensive and cycle riding increases, we must move to the Dutch system of sustainable safety, why not now? ... and breathe

Dave

which is pretty much as good as it gets now
I lve in Edinburgh,A city pushing to be a city of cycling excellence(or some other sich term)
They have put aside a chunk of the transport budget for cycling.
sadly this seems to be pointless as its being spent on poorly implemented plans.
for example,A 'quality bike corridor' with parking in the lanes,badly laid out lanes and half a mile with no cycle provision at all?

prowla

Dave_C wrote: »

Several points

• How did you measure the speed of the cyclist?
• There is mostly no speed limit for a bicycle
• Pedestrians should give way to cyclists except for crossings, which weren't mentioned.
• If the cyclist was "speeding" then the BMW would also be speeding
• If the cyclist was holding up a BMW then no pedestrian in their right mind would have tried to cross in front of a cyclist in front of a BMW
• How does one cyclist being followed by a BMW cause absolute traffic chaos?

Dave

From the government's web site: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Roadsafetyadvice/DG_178867?CID=TAT&PLA=url_mon&CRE=speed_limits

"A limit of 30 miles per hour (mph) or 48 kilometres per hour (km/h) usually applies to all traffic on all roads with street lighting. This applies unless you see signs showing otherwise."

Note the bit where it says "all traffic".

It is daft and dangerous for cyclists to think that this somehow doesn't apply to them!

The online Highway Code also has a section for cyclists, at http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/Cyclists/index.htm

One of the "you must"s there is:

"66. ... never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends"

a "you must not":

"68. ride in a dangerous, careless or inconsiderate manner"

and another "you must" which is pertinent to this case:

"73. Pay particular attention to long vehicles which need a lot of room to manoeuvre at corners. Be aware that drivers may not see you. They may have to move over to the right before turning left. Wait until they have completed the manoeuvre because the rear wheels come very close to the kerb while turning. Do not be tempted to ride in the space between them and the kerb."

Mrs_Arcanum

Dave_C wrote: »

Or at the very least take up cycling at a later stage - like I did.

I'm a driver and a cyclist and I'm always considerate to cyclists when driving and vice versa. But it does get annoying when I'm riding in the centre of the lane to avoid the door zone and some twit in a car is a foot away from my rear wheel itching to get past.

Dave

The door zone is misunderstood by so many drivers following cyclists. Not forgetting the idiot who opens a door right in front of a cyclist.
I did scare a driver one day, who for some reason couldn't see me in my bright yellow jacket and just blithely attempted to pull out from a side road right in front of me. :eek:

I am one of those cyclists who will deliberately go to the middle of the road but clearly indicating I am turning right, to stop impatient drivers cutting me up.

A few things I do find strange with some cyclists is those who cycle in the road complete with potholes and drains right alongside a lovely smooth cycle path. Or those who when given the choice of a narrow highly congested road vs a slightly longer car free route will stick to the road. Worse still, cyclists on the pavement when the adjacent road is wide enough for both vehicles and bikes.

e999sam

prowla wrote: »

From the government's web site: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Roadsafetyadvice/DG_178867?CID=TAT&PLA=url_mon&CRE=speed_limits

"A limit of 30 miles per hour (mph) or 48 kilometres per hour (km/h) usually applies to all traffic on all roads with street lighting. This applies unless you see signs showing otherwise."

Note the bit where it says "all traffic".

It is daft and dangerous for cyclists to think that this somehow doesn't apply to them!

The online Highway Code also has a section for cyclists, at http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/Cyclists/index.htm

One of the "you must"s there is:

"66. ... never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends"

a "you must not":

"68. ride in a dangerous, careless or inconsiderate manner"

and another "you must" which is pertinent to this case:

"73. Pay particular attention to long vehicles which need a lot of room to manoeuvre at corners. Be aware that drivers may not see you. They may have to move over to the right before turning left. Wait until they have completed the manoeuvre because the rear wheels come very close to the kerb while turning. Do not be tempted to ride in the space between them and the kerb."

You are clearly misrepresenting the Highway code. Several of your examples do not come under "You must not" or "must" There is a clear difference in the Highway code between Should and must. Must or must not are legal requirements.

Dave_C_2

prowla wrote: »

From the government's web site: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Roadsafetyadvice/DG_178867?CID=TAT&PLA=url_mon&CRE=speed_limits

"A limit of 30 miles per hour (mph) or 48 kilometres per hour (km/h) usually applies to all traffic on all roads with street lighting. This applies unless you see signs showing otherwise."

Note the bit where it says "all traffic".

This would be on the page that says at the start (my emphasis)

There are different speed limits for cars, vans and towing vehicles on different types of roads. Make sure you know the legal speed limits for your vehicle, the penalties for speeding and when to slow down to suit the road conditions.

There are no references to cyclists on this web page.

Please read my no speed limit for a bicycle link which goes into more detail on this subject.

Just to remind all motorists reading this of the highway code rule 163.



Dave

prowla

Dave_C wrote: »

This would be on the page that says at the start (my emphasis)

There are no references to cyclists on this web page.

Please read my no speed limit for a bicycle link which goes into more detail on this subject.

Just to remind all motorists reading this of the highway code rule 163.



Dave

If you read what it says, you will see that it refers to "all traffic" first, and then adds detail for some specific types.

The cyclists are encompassed by the "all traffic" (as are bubble cars, 3-wheelers, electric invalid vehicles, quad cycles, tractors, half-tracks and tanks, and all the other variants of traffic which aren't specifically mentioned).

It is stupid and dangerous to try and encourage cyclists that the rules of the road do not apply to them - the wording is plain and clear.

(Also, if you look at that picture, you would see that the car is giving the cyclist more space than they would another car - if they gave a car that much space they would be off the edge of the road ...)

custardy

prowla wrote: »

If you read what it says, you will see that it refers to "all traffic" first, and then adds detail for some specific types.

The cyclists are encompassed by the "all traffic" (as are bubble cars, 3-wheelers, electric invalid vehicles, quad cycles, tractors, half-tracks and tanks, and all the other variants of traffic which aren't specifically mentioned).

It is stupid and dangerous to try and encourage cyclists that the rules of the road do not apply to them - the wording is plain and clear.

(Also, if you look at that picture, you would see that the car is giving the cyclist more space than they would another car - if they gave a car that much space they would be off the edge of the road ...)

So you want to agree with the Highway code and then disagree at the same time?
How would you gauge the speed you are doing on a bicycle?

Handsome90

Firstly, it's wrong for cyclists or motorists to exceed the speed limit.

Secondly, The Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 states:
“It shall not be lawful for a person to drive a motor vehicle on a restricted road at a speed exceeding 30 miles per hour.” (RTRA 81.1) “A person who drives a motor vehicle on a road at a speed exceeding a limit imposed by or under any enactment to which this section applies shall be guilty of an offence.” (RTRA 89.1)

So I don't think cyclists could be fined for speeding (even though it's wrong). I know it's pretty silly for people who made the law for not including cyclists. However, apparently cyclists can be fined for "furious cycling."

Source - http://www.bikehub.co.uk/featured-articles/cycling-and-the-law/

prowla

custardy wrote: »

So you want to agree with the Highway code and then disagree at the same time?
How would you gauge the speed you are doing on a bicycle?

I was stating what it showed, in both cases.:)

In terms of speed on a bike, that is a good question; I guess you could fit a speedometer.

I suppose there is an assumption that (most) bikes won't go that fast, but some do, and they may be caught speeding, in which case ignorance of the law isn't an excuse, as occurred in Scarborough OZ: http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/breaking/13038307/cyclist-caught-speeding-in-scarborough-school-zone/.

custardy

prowla wrote: »

I was stating what it showed, in both cases.:)

In terms of speed on a bike, that is a good question; I guess you could fit a speedometer.

I suppose there is an assumption that (most) bikes won't go that fast, but some do, and they may be caught speeding, in which case ignorance of the law isn't an excuse, as occurred in Scarborough OZ: http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/breaking/13038307/cyclist-caught-speeding-in-scarborough-school-zone/.

but how would that stand?
Bikes are legal for the road with no speedo
So how do you convict a cyclist fr going too fast on a mode of transport that legally doesnt have to have any way of measuring speed?
we already have drivers getting away +10% in many cases with a speedo