Does Your Child Go To A Proper School Or An Academy?

Dunroamin

DecentLivingWage wrote: »

Teachers need to have Qualified Teacher Status because it proves they have already shown themselves to be proficient, competent and effective deliverers of educational results in real schools. Anything less is taking a chance on it - do any of you want to do that with your child's future? Thanks, but no thanks, I won't be playing 'maybe' with my son's future career - he only gets one childhood !

QTS proves nothing except that the teacher has done the appropriate course, which is why you don't need it to teach in the independent sector.

peachyprice

masonn wrote: »

Yes and they probably think the nation will rise up in righteous indignation behind them. They obviously haven't taken into account that parents want what's best for their children and not teachers.

OP certainly does.

peachyprice

DecentLivingWage wrote: »

Teachers need to have Qualified Teacher Status because it proves they have already shown themselves to be proficient, competent and effective deliverers of educational results in real schools.

How do you explain truly bad teachers gaining their QTS?

See, to me, the fact that there are some truly awful teachers out there just proves that the QTS really does mean diddly squat. If this qualifictation were really as wonderful as you profess all teachers would be great, wouldn't they?

ViolaLass

peachyprice wrote: »

How do you explain truly bad teachers gaining their QTS?

See, to me, the fact that there are some truly awful teachers out there just proves that the QTS really does mean diddly squat. If this qualifictation were really as wonderful as you profess all teachers would be great, wouldn't they?

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment: if it is true that the system doesn't work i.e. bad teachers are able to get through the training and stay in employment, is getting rid of the system the answer? How will that keep the bad teachers out?

daisiegg

Dunroamin wrote: »

QTS proves nothing except that the teacher has done the appropriate course, which is why you don't need it to teach in the independent sector.

Well, no, it proves that they have PASSED the course, which involves lots of being observed teaching and providing evidence for all the standards, etc. And not everyone passes.

I do completely agree that just having QTS doesn't make someone a good teacher, but can't you say that for everything? I've been treated by some shockingly poor qualified doctors...had my hair cut by a really bad qualified hairdresser...had a boiler repair botched by a qualified gas engineer...yet you still need the qualifications for these jobs. Why not teaching?

thegirlintheattic

Dunroamin wrote: »

QTS proves nothing except that the teacher has done the appropriate course, which is why you don't need it to teach in the independent sector.

Can we get something straight - QTS is not a course - that is a PGCE. QTS is a certificate to prove you've met the standards of a teacher. The current Q standards can be seen here: http://www.bolton.ac.uk/sas/Documents/QTSStandards.pdf but they are changing come September. I think if you look at the standards there are few that people would think are not necessary to be a good and effective teacher. You can get QTS from working unqualified in a school under supervision already - although it is more common to get it through a PGCE or BEd. People can fail QTS if they don't meet the standards - when I trained several people did. People can also get a BEd or PGCE without QTS if they pass the academic bit but fail the practical bit.

Now I don't think that just because you have QTS you are a good teacher, nor do I think those without it are not good teachers. I think we can all agree on that. The independent sector is a good example; I've seen some really good teachers and some really bad ones (lectures for an hour whilst the students make notes). What does concern me is that the government hasn't elaborated on what checks will be in place to make sure these experts are good teachers (with or without QTS). Will it be a case of 'taking a chance' on someone because they are an expert or will there be some kind of monitoring to check that standards are being maintained?

A piece of paper does not matter but standards do, and I hope that the government does provide more detail before September on how this will actually work in practice. Will unqualified teachers be judged against the same core standards as qualified teachers once they are teaching? Will training be provided before they begin teaching? After all, just because someone is an excellent scientist does not mean that they can manage the behaviour of a class, or differentiate the work for a mixed ability class, or support a very weak student who is only just learning English. This was touched upon in the 'Jamie's Dream School program' last year. Again, QTS doesn't guarantee this either but it does show that at some point the person has shown themselves capable.

Where will the money for the experts salaries come from? Academies are almost certainly are going to have to offer better pay to encourage these high-fliers. Will this mean that schools will have to cut budgets in other areas to pay the increase salaries? One of the criticisms of the TeachFirst initiative for top graduates is that many leave after two years to get a better salary in the private sector.

I'm not against unqualified teachers if they improve standards but I do think that everyone needs more information about how this will work and there does need to be some sort of training and monitoring going on to ensure that our nation's children receive a high quality education, and also that schools don't become polarised with experts teaching the higher ability students and the lower ability students ending up second best.

Another interesting article I came across today in relation to this argument is here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/teacher-network/2012/aug/01/teaching-profession-irrational-people

daisiegg

Great, comprehensive post, girlintheattic, thanks!

peachyprice

ViolaLass wrote: »

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment: if it is true that the system doesn't work i.e. bad teachers are able to get through the training and stay in employment, is getting rid of the system the answer? How will that keep the bad teachers out?

The system isn't being got rid of though is it, for non-academy state schools teachers will still have to be qualified. Academies are being given the same options as the private sector, that, most importantly, they don't have to exercise, but the choice will be there.

ViolaLass

peachyprice wrote: »

The system isn't being got rid of though is it, for non-academy state schools teachers will still have to be qualified. Academies are being given the same options as the private sector, that, most importantly, they don't have to exercise, but the choice will be there.

I think that counts as getting rid of the system for those schools, even if it isn't for all schools. My question about whether it is the answer remains.

peachyprice

ViolaLass wrote: »

My question about whether it is the answer remains.

The new policy hasn't been implemented as a solution to get rid of bad teachers nor because the QTS doesn't work, the idea is to give academies the same choice as the private sector in the way they spend their money.