A very long, despairing post

meritaten

Sorry - I got confused between the flat she lived in, her brother lived in and the property fruitcake mum had in her name!
but even so - Two properties divided between three still gives you a hefty part of the purchase price doesnt it?

londonsurrey

Gingernutty wrote: »

I think you're getting the two brothers confused. Brother in Oz is doing quite nicely for himself and owns his own house, Brother in London wants to stay in London, in fact, that part of London.

He's lived rent free in one or the other property since 1991 - that's 21 years.

I'm not willing to hand over the money to CGT. However, we do now owe CGT and could owe more if the flat is re-let.

I want it sorted as quickly and as efficiently as possible but Brother 1 seems to be utterly deaf to everyone but himself and his masterplan.

It's the lack of communication, the 'not knowing' which is driving me up the wall.

Sorry, it was a bad example. I wasn't getting them confused, but trying to point out that Brother 1, if he somehow ended up being gifted with the property, would be entitled to sell it and up sticks and keep all the profit.

Life changes, sometimes at the drop of a hat. A new job offer, a family crisis, etc. He may well end up staying there for the rest of his life.

What about you, what about if you have children? They will have a mother who has x thousand pounds less of estate to be able to leave them. What about decades down the line, if you and your brothers end up having to sell your properties for nursing care? He'll be able to afford better nursing care. Will he sub your nursing care?

Yorkie1

Are you sure about the CGT payable on the income? Has your solicitor confirmed this is payable?

Usually CGT is payable on the gain in value of an asset. Income is treated through income tax.

Gingernutty

Yorkie1 wrote: »

Are you sure about the CGT payable on the income? Has your solicitor confirmed this is payable?

Usually CGT is payable on the gain in value of an asset. Income is treated through income tax.

I've just flipped through more pages on the direct.gov and HMRC websites and I do believe you're right.

It's still more tax though

Gingernutty

meritaten wrote: »

Sorry - I got confused between the flat she lived in, her brother lived in and the property fruitcake mum had in her name!
but even so - Two properties divided between three still gives you a hefty part of the purchase price doesnt it?

It's all the same flat, btw.

I agree. One third of the estate after debts (Brother 1 and Brother 2 are owed a substantial amount of money after all their hard work and the help they've given Dad) and taxes (which still haven't been calculated thanks to our solicitor and the estate agent :mad:) would leave me able to pay off the mortgage, do up my house and still leave me with money to put in ISAs and high interest savings accounts.

Brother 1 would still be able to buy somewhere in London.

Brother 2 would be able to pay off his mortgage too.

meritaten

Gingernutty wrote: »

It's all the same flat, btw.

I agree. One third of the estate after debts (Brother 1 and Brother 2 are owed a substantial amount of money after all their hard work and the help they've given Dad) and taxes (which still haven't been calculated thanks to our solicitor and the estate agent :mad:) would leave me able to pay off the mortgage, do up my house and still leave me with money to put in ISAs and high interest savings accounts.

Brother 1 would still be able to buy somewhere in London.

Brother 2 would be able to pay off his mortgage too.

There you go - that is probably the outcome your dad INTENDED!

FatVonD

Gingernutty wrote: »

One third of the estate after debts (Brother 1 and Brother 2 are owed a substantial amount of money after all their hard work and the help they've given Dad)

So are you saying that both brothers will be receiving money even before everything is split 3 ways? Was that your father's intention?

Go here to check out what similar houses and flats in the relevant roads have sold for recently so your brother can't bamboozle you with a low valuation:

http://www.nethouseprices.com/

Gingernutty

Gingernutty wrote: »

One third of the estate after debts - Brother 1 and Brother 2 are owed a substantial amount of money after all their hard work and the help they've given Dad

FatVonD wrote: »

So are you saying that both brothers will be receiving money even before everything is split 3 ways? Was that your father's intention?

It may not have been Dad's intention, but they have put up a lot of cash not just to do up the flat for renting but Brother 2 has shelled out money for Dad's nursing home fees when Dad's savings ran out.

This is all counted as the estate's debts for inheritance tax purposes and is quite legal.

FatVonD

Gingernutty wrote: »

It may not have been Dad's intention, but they have put up a lot of cash not just to do up the flat for renting but Brother 2 has shelled out money for Dad's nursing home fees when Dad's savings ran out.

This is all counted as the estate's debts for inheritance tax purposes and is quite legal.

Okay, that makes sense re brother 2 as the nursing home fees would otherwise have come out of the estate.

It makes sense re brother 1 if the flat is sold and split 3 ways (as you all benefit from the increased value.)

Where it maybe doesn't make sense is if he keeps the flat and yourself and brother 2 have both contributed one third of the renovations costs on the flat he wishes to keep (unless he pays you the difference between his third share and the new improved value of the flat) but I might just be being difficult now!

Gingernutty

FatVonD wrote: »

Go here to check out what similar houses and flats in the relevant roads have sold for recently so your brother can't bamboozle you with a low valuation:

http://www.nethouseprices.com/

Oh, believe me, I know what the house prices are like.

Dad and Brother 1 are just two in a large family associated with or working in the building trades - I've a fairly sharp eye for property prices myself.

We're trying to get a quote as low as possible for the probate valuation - the estate agent's quote was pretty good.

I genuinely don't know why the solicitor has taken up arms against them.