tennancy agreement and section 21 at same time

princeofpounds

Thanks for the extra info.

If it were me, I would be speaking direct to the landlord and educating them about SPTs, preferably with some official-looking information.

I would highlight that I intend to stay and that if a void is what they are worried about then by evicting you they are merely guaranteeing a void at no benefit to themselves.

I would then continue paying rent and stay in place until and unless a court notice arrives. There is a possibility it never will.

There is one circumstance where the landlord might not be a muppet. Some insurance or BTL mortgage might require a certain level of tenancy security, but I would think it unusual that they have problems with a sitting, paying tenant.

As pointed out already, nothing changes if you are on an SPT except the notice terms. The original contract is still totally in force otherwise.

sturman

On the money again princeofpounds. I have a friend who is a LL and he said rental Insurance wouldn't pay out because the tenant was out of contract.
However my LL wont talk to me anymore because i think the LA have his ear.To be honest i even told him that i will guarantee him 2 months notice and he can show propective tenants around a few weeks before we leave,I hoped to exchange and set a 6 week date for completion with a relaxed 2 week moving into my new home .Thats all out the window now.

The LL is a muppet and the LA have a system of getting more money from me and LL. They probably contacted LL told him about cases of tenants from hell then told him to be safe tenants need to be on a contract...simple
But my question is.Can they take money from my deposit to get me out even if i dont go to court?
Also bearing in mind the section 21 states i'm due out on the 10/08 and i want to stay till the 10/09. when should i let them know.

tbs624

sturman wrote: »

On the money again princeofpounds. I have a friend who is a LL and he said rental Insurance wouldn't pay out because the tenant was out of contract.

Your friend may be a LL but that does not mean that he is right. You still have a contract! See my previous post. Insurance cover should still be available to the LL under a SPA

sturman wrote: »

The LL is a muppet and the LA have a system of getting more money from me and LL. They probably contacted LL told him about cases of tenants from hell then told him to be safe tenants need to be on a contract...simple

Again - you would still be under a contract, albeit not a Fixed term one.

sturman wrote: »

Also bearing in mind the section 21 states i'm due out on the 10/08 and i want to stay till the 10/09. when should i let them know.

The s21 will *not* state that you are due out on 10/08. It should say that the LL intends to seek repossession *after* 10/08 and to do so he would then need to go to court if you haven't chosen to leave..

Tirian

We are in a very similar situation, so I have looked into the law on this very carefully.

The LL cannot make you leave at the end of the AST. This is merely the first point at which they can apply to a court for a repossession hearing. Depending on how busy the courts are, the first available date could even be a couple of months after - but best to assume a matter of weeks.

Until they have had the hearing, they cannot harass you in any way or take any action to force you out of the property or prevent you from using it.

If it makes it to a court hearing, you may then be given a date on which to move out that can then be enforced - however in your circumstances it sounds like you will likely be already out by that point. You'd need to get some legal advice to tell you exactly whether you'd be liable for any costs in this circumstance (but I think it's fairly unlikely). Likewise, if you are still in the property but have a reasonably imminent date for completion on a purchase, I can't see a judge ordering you to be evicted before that date.

In our situation, luckily for us, the landlord did not register our deposit within the required 30 day period so their S21 is not even valid (although they either don't realise it, or are assuming that we won't know - in any case, I don't intend to alert them to this fact until they try it on).

franklee

James_N wrote: »

You'll find this is perfectly in order, and whether you read and understood the S21 is not relevant - it was still served. LL do this to protect themselves against tenants who turn out to be bad - they minimise their exposure.

They do NOT have to act on the S21, and then it becomes rolling.

What I cannot understand is that if you have paid, been no trouble, and had a good direct relationship with the LL, why they need to repossess. There would seem to be no logic UNLESS the landlord has plans to develop or use himself.

Or, especially in the case of an accidental landlord, to sell with vacant possession.

This mucking about with the S21 is not a nice way to treat a tenant as it attempts to deprive them of a proper two months notice. Especially as many accidental landlords do sell sooner or later so the tenant does not know if the S21 will be actioned or not.

Not that this "Sword of Damocles" method of serving the S21 protects the landlord as if there is a year contract the landlord has ten months in which to decide if the tenant is a bad un and serve the S21 to arrive back in the same position. He could put a note in his diary, although if it's a bad tenant I'm sure he would remember to serve the S21 soon enough and he'd stand more chance of it being valid as by then the tenancy will be established, deposit all protected etc. Or if the tenant is really bad early on the landlord can use section 8 without waiting for the end of the fixed term.

So bad tenants end up in the same position precautionary S21 or not, good tenants get shafted by the precautionary S21, or at least have some hassle, and landlords may accidentally lose a good tenant if they obey the S21 without coming somewhere like here first to ask questions. It seems to me the agent is the only one to benefit from the ruse in the charging of more fees.

mrschaucer

Your query re notice: If you want to stay until 10/9 you need to ensure that they have written notice of your intention to leave by 10/8, either delivered by hand by that date or by letter posted (keep proof) two days before. I'd be aiming for 9/8 latest just to be sure.

princeofpounds

Your query re notice: If you want to stay until 10/9 you need to ensure that they have written notice of your intention to leave by 10/8, either delivered by hand by that date or by letter posted (keep proof) two days before. I'd be aiming for 9/8 latest just to be sure.

Correct, but it assumes you rental periods start on the 11th of the month? Can you confirm OP?

rpc

Some may consider it immoral, but if you are moving into your own property then you could just ignore the S21. They will take you to court, but you will probably be out before then (?). The relatively low costs that could be incurred in court can be set aside as yet-another-moving-house-expense.

If you are certain you will exchange (or have done) then I would negociate a departure date of 10th September. IMHO they would be absolutely potty to pursue you through the courts for the sake of a month.

edit: Don't forget that you are legally entitled to quiet enjoyment of the property until bailiffs turn up at the door. By staying beyond the S21 expiry date, you are simply exercising your legal rights.

dancingfairy

An s21 is a known as a no fault notice and sadly if a landlord wants their proprty back for any particular reason (or even no reason at all) then as long as they go about it in the correct manner then they are legally entitled to do so.
It is therefore highly likely you will be required to move. If you do wish to stay I'd write to the landlord (you do have their real address don't you) with all the information regarding statutory rolling tenancies and explain how you want to stay etc etc and see what their response is.
If you accept that you're probably going to have to move and your objective is damage limitation then I'd have a look and see how much the court fee is - am sure you can find that out somewhere. The experienced landlords on here can tell you whether this is likely to be a cost that the landlord can take from your deposit or not.
Best of Luck trying to find a new house and I hope you find a better landlord next time.
df
P.S If no-one on here knows the answer to how much (if any) of your deposit could be at risk then I'd give Shelter a call and also ask them if there is any benefit in serving your own notice to the landlord, informing them of when you'll be out.

jjlandlord

mrschaucer wrote: »

Your query re notice: If you want to stay until 10/9 you need to ensure that they have written notice of your intention to leave by 10/8, either delivered by hand by that date or by letter posted (keep proof) two days before. I'd be aiming for 9/8 latest just to be sure.

OP said that his fixed term tenancy will end on 10/08, and I assume that the rent is payable monthly.
So strictly speaking he cannot serve a valid notice to quit to end the following periodic tenancy on 10/09. He must rely on the landlord formally accepting it, but it's likely to happen.