Preparedness for when

ivyleaf

GreyQueen wrote: »

A worthy read: http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.co.uk/

Thanks for that GQ. A brilliant breath of fresh air! And now I also understand why Trump is doing so well, which had puzzled me before.

LoveLifeAgain

GreyQueen wrote: »

A worthy read: http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.co.uk/

Thank you, that is a very interesting read

maryb

I think the article articulated many of my underlying reasons for thinking that the EU was not promoting social justice.

But I feel it's not enough to cut off the factors leading to wage suppression. I sense that a lot of our future success as an economy and a society depends on re-establishing shared values. Do people feel optimistic on that score?

moneyistooshorttomention

Crikey - 297 comments (at present) in response to that blog post on the archdruid report blog.....

Think he's struck quite a chord there then...

It's useful to see an "outsider viewpoint" on a matter of national import (ie an American commenting on a British issue). You know they arent "part of the game" basically and so might be looking at things more objectively than those that are.

It has been difficult here in Britain for the last week or two to cope with the fact that ridicule seems to have been legitimised as a verbal "weapon of choice" for those that voted Brexit.

It isn't easy - when you're told you must be "thick"/"old"/etc/etc - delete as applicable because you voted for that - rather than clear well-reasoned arguments as to why they feel you shouldnt have done so. By and large - so it seems to me - the whole "You shouldn't have voted thata way" argument has felt (to me anyway) - like trying to make you feel you "Can't be a member of your peer group then....you've just betrayed us". ????? Huh? What?"

Then there are those that are trying to make you feel you've just voted against the "best interests" of some other thing (eg the location you live in for instance - to name just one).

By the end of which - you land up with that sentence echoing down your mind from 2,000 years ago of "What is Truth?" and almost made to feel guilty for voting for what you have worked out is (the nearest to) Truth option you have available to you in these circumstances. Add - that I do, personally, regard Gut Reaction as a valid tool to use to make personal decisions (rather than going through 301 pages of more-or-less "reasoned arguments"). Yep... Gut Reaction followed by "letting your mind loose to think about it from all possible angles" seems like quite a reasonable basis for making decisions to me personally. I wouldnt go for "Gut Reaction" alone or "Endless thinking around it/reading all arguments" on the other hand - but a balance between the two is probably just about right imo. That way one is making one's own decisions - rather than going with whatever is currently perceived as the "in crowd to be in" (aka sheep).

Thank goodness that - at a very personal face-to-face level - my experience has been that people are saying "I voted Remain or Brexit" and we then move on to the next topic of conversation - rather than "coming to blows" about it:)

ivyleaf

maryb Do you mean values shared between the "elite" and the ordinary people? It would be nice to think that would happen. Optimistic about such an outcome - not very.

moneyistooshorttomention

ivyleaf wrote: »

maryb Do you mean values shared between the "elite" and the ordinary people? It would be nice to think that would happen. Optimistic about such an outcome - not very.

Fresh from a group discussion ITRW as to whether other a person/people were going to be allowed to constitute themselves as "elite" (ie get any possible profit from a particular course of action).

End result being - no they arent:D. The group as a whole must get the benefit.

It is surprisingly hard to get it agreed - even on a face-to-face small group basis - that "all should benefit" from any positive outcomes that might happen from any course of action - so I am fully prepared to believe that ITRW such outcomes might not happen (ie because someone somewhere simply couldnt resist the opportunity to be selfish - and decided to railroad everyone else involved:cool::().

Cynics 'r us:cool:.

But, on this occasion, the benefit was retained for the good of the group as a whole:D

nuatha

maryb wrote: »

I think the article articulated many of my underlying reasons for thinking that the EU was not promoting social justice.

But I feel it's not enough to cut off the factors leading to wage suppression. I sense that a lot of our future success as an economy and a society depends on re-establishing shared values. Do people feel optimistic on that score?

I don't. Generally shared values seem to have been gradually disappearing from society since the 80s, unless the shared values are everyone for their self, and do unto others before they get the chance to do unto you.

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

It isn't easy - when you're told you must be "thick"/"old"/etc/etc - delete as applicable because you voted for that - rather than clear well-reasoned arguments as to why they feel you shouldnt have done so. By and large - so it seems to me - the whole "You shouldn't have voted thata way" argument has felt (to me anyway) - like trying to make you feel you "Can't be a member of your peer group then....you've just betrayed us". ????? Huh? What?"

While I agree there's far too much name calling going on - on both sides - and far too little constructive dialogue. (At any level, from leading politicians down to the person in the street). Though it might help if there where some routes and possibilities to discuss.

Peers are by definition, people of a similar age, social status and interests. If your aims contradict their interests perhaps you were both mistaken about whether you were peers?

Then there are those that are trying to make you feel you've just voted against the "best interests" of some other thing (eg the location you live in for instance - to name just one).

By the end of which - you land up with that sentence echoing down your mind from 2,000 years ago of "What is Truth?"

The question of what is truth (and the very different question of "what is true") have been debated for far longer than 2 thousand years and I doubt that humanity is ever going to get anywhere close to an answer.

ivyleaf wrote: »

maryb Do you mean values shared between the "elite" and the ordinary people? It would be nice to think that would happen. Optimistic about such an outcome - not very.

I would settle for shared values among neighbours and communities. I can't think of any period where there have been real shared values between any elite and "ordinary" people.

[Deleted User]

It's ALL hot air and smoke, the vote is made, counted and the decision announced. People can rant or celebrate as they choose but there is no turning back from the fact that 52% of the people who voted chose to vote leave and presumably that's what we'll do. People will settle down when they have some idea of what will happen and when, until then there will be a simmering discontent along with some degree of fear over the future and the need to blame part of society for not voting as they did. It's human nature.

We have SHARED VALUES, we don't always see eye to eye but on the whole we on this thread, disparate group that we are of all ages, personalities and experiences mostly have shared values, if we can reach that point and be useful to each other (and I know we are there) by the knowledge pool that we freely and without expectation of any reward choose to share the rest of society could do so too. The British are at their best under adverse conditions, always have been and despite having become 'modern man' the character trait to get in and help one another is still here!!!

GreyQueen

Afternoon, all.

Glad several of you have enjoyed the Archdruid. Mr Greer is a superb essayist and his commentators are erudite and well-reasoned, and one of our regulars even comments there, sometimes, under the same user-name as she uses on MSE.

That Brexit essay is a humdinger. Shame that it can't be forcibly read to the pig-ignorant mudslingers of the liberal press. The kind of things which get said about the working class in the UK would consititute hate crime if said about any other group, and this has been the case long before Brexit. They have become so detatched from the reality of most people's lives that they might as well be a separate species.

Lots of people have had their lives blighted by the events of the last 30 years and have been thrown under the bus by the elite classes without a second thought. But the elites, and their elite journalist co-travellers, suffer from a particular form of dyscalculia; they actually think they are the majority.:rotfl:

It vastly amuses me to see people who imagine themselves to be clever to fail to understand that they are a small minority within the population. A minority which insists on making itself deeply unpopular with the majority. There is an endgame to this, and it is massive civil unrest and the overthrow of the present elite class. And maybe even personal injury and death, as well as injury to reputation and wallet.

Keep your ears peeled for the rumble of tumbrels across the cobbles and cast on some knitting ...........

VJsmum

Trouble is that it is unclear who is the elite, who is in the middle, who is honest working group class and who are lazy sods unwilling to do a days work but have high expectations. I know people in all those categories. Well maybe except the elite.

I think you are right about a degree of civil unrest, regretfully.