Preparedness for when

moneyistooshorttomention

That was my understanding as well Nuatha. That being the EU can think what it darn well likes if we invoke Article 50 - but will be unable to stop us going.

After all - this is being compared to a divorce isnt it? In the course of a divorce - an unwilling spouse can contest it all they please, but that will only draw the process out. It won't actually stop the spouse wanting the divorce getting it.

Let's just hope they don't find a way to "charge us through the nose" in alimony:cool:

nuatha

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

I must say, too, that I regard Cameron as a coward flunking out of things because they didnt go his way. He should have had Plan B (if the vote was for Brexit) sitting there already in his office - worked out in some detail and generally thought it through and now be acknowledging his duties as Prime Minister to get on and deal with it.

Given the confusion over what the leading Leave campaigners want, let alone what Joe Public thought they were voting for, I think its quite reasonable to work out who's vision of the future is the one that is going to be put to Europe.
Or do you want to waste part of the two years wrangling over what you voted for? So far the only stated vision I've seen is from Boris, access to the free market, which means paying more money than we were, with less say in what happens and still accepting free movement of people.
I really hope that's not the eventual outcome.
If Cameron had already invoked Article 50, then who's vision would he be asking for? Negotiations tend to start with a vision or at least a shopping list.
Cameron had already announced he wouldn't be serving the whole term of government, resigning at this point gives a natural breathing space and the chance for the Conservative Party to decide which version of Brexit we go for. I doubt the EU will patiently wait beyond October - though there isn't a mechanism for them to say "put up or shut up"

Meanwhile the uncertainty continues, as it will after Article 50 is invoked, right the way through until a withdrawal treaty is agreed or rejected. There's a bumpy ride ahead.

Blue_Doggy

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

But that's just the thing - they can very easily see what is going on here. They can click on the websites of our national newspapers/the BBC website/etc and will be all too well aware.

(I was being ironic) It makes me feel ashamed that all this is being played out in front of our friends and our enemies equally, like a family rowing in the street at midnight, with the neighbours hanging out of the windows watching and shouting their halfpenn'orth.

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

As for putting the whole "divorce" in process - I just hope the respective political Parties hurry up and get their act together. I don't see us proceeding with this until they do. Personally - I'd regard it as "urgent" to resolve all those differences and then proceed with Brexit in an orderly fashion.

I agree that the political parties should pull themselves together and act responsibly, but we must take time to get the negotiations right so that we don't end up in a worse state. "Marry in haste, repent at leisure" applies here.

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

I must say, too, that I regard Cameron as a coward flunking out of things because they didnt go his way. He should have had Plan B (if the vote was for Brexit) sitting there already in his office - worked out in some detail and generally thought it through and now be acknowledging his duties as Prime Minister to get on and deal with it. Gawdknows - a lot of us have probably held much "lower level" posts and just had to get on and implement the policy of "our" organisation - even when we personally thought very differently (I know I did and I'm still wincing at the thought of having had to - ie back in my trade union days).

I disagree, I don't think Cameron, whatever else he may be, is a "coward flunking out of things". How can he, who had already said he would not serve his full term, make negotiations and arrangements which would bind his as-yet-unknown successor? That successor, presumably a Brexiteer, will have his own ideas about what should be done, informed by his own supporters, advisors and backers, and would only have to undo Cameron's arrangements where they did not fit with his own.

(Ooops! just seen that nuatha's said the same thing!)

nuatha

Blue_Doggy wrote: »

I disagree, I don't think Cameron, whatever else he may be, is a "coward flunking out of things". How can he, who had already said he would not serve his full term, make negotiations and arrangements which would bind his as-yet-unknown successor? That successor, presumably a Brexiteer, will have his own ideas about what should be done, informed by his own supporters, advisors and backers, and would only have to undo Cameron's arrangements where they did not fit with his own.

(Ooops! just seen that nuatha's said the same thing!)

Similar, though I prefer the emphasis and focus in yours.
Regardless, its a potentially rocky road ahead, not that that's anything new.

Goldiegirl

The thing with article 50 is that, once it's invoked, that's when the clock starts ticking.

The negotiations must be done within two years, and and agreement reached in that time. If agreement is not reached in two years, the time can be extended, but only with EU agreement. If they don't agree, then that's it, we are out on our ear, with no agreed arrangements whatsoever. We would only be accepted back into the Eu again on their terms, and that would include accepting the Euro as our currency, something that even the most keen Remainers would baulk at!

Given that the Eu don't want us to leave, and aren't willing to do any preliminary negotiations before invoking article 50 and will play hard ball during the negotiations, it is imperative that we know exactly what we want before we take that the step that puts us at the point of no return.

Given that nobody (even the leaders of the Leave campaign) thought Leave would win, there is simply no plan.

This will take years yet, if we ever get there - the Leave camp appear to have no will to actually take action. As far as I can see, prominent Leave figures have been very subdued since the result of the referendum. Apart from Nigel, none of them have shown any pleasure or excitement about the result. Boris and Gove couldn't even be bothered to attend parliament yesterday. I reckon they are wondering what the hell they've got themselves into!

As for David Cameron. I 100% agree with his personal decision to not invoke article 50. Who, amongst us would genuinely set in train an irrevocable course of action that we believe would damage our country and went against all our political and personal beliefs and instincts?

Muck better that a new, pro Brexit PM does it - after all that's what the Leave campainging fought for - now they need to carry is through.

But I think we'll be searching high and low for this person - as I doubt if Boris and Co REALLY wanted to leave the Eu in the first place!

Goldiegirl

Blue_Doggy wrote: »

I agree that the political parties should pull themselves together and act responsibly, but we must take time to get the negotiations right so that we don't end up in a worse state. "Marry in haste, repent at leisure" applies here.



!)

In this case it could be 'ask for a divorce in haste, repent at leisure!'

cbsexec

Goldiegirl - you are quite right. Once we invoke article 50 we have two years but if we cant reach agreement thats it we are out anyway with nothing. Scary that there are so many people with strong opinions about what should be happening yet haven't done the research - if you see what I mean. I think you are correct in thinking that Boris and Co didnt really think they were going to win so didnt have a plan in place. Now is the time for calm and taking the opportunity to really think about what we want and how we are going to achieve it. The argument has been decided so now we must unite and get the best outcome we can.

short_bird

GreyQueen wrote: »

Then, he can come back, bronzed and weatherbeaten and honest-to-gosh real. Wonder if he'd still be a Tory?:rotfl:

Depends on who his gangmaster is...

nuatha

short_bird wrote: »

Cancel the kitchen scraps for lepers and orphans, no more merciful beheadings, and call off Christmas.

You running for Parliament?

short_bird

nuatha wrote: »

You running for Parliament?

No, love, still mourning Alan Rickman...