Preparedness for when

GreyQueen

maryb wrote: »

the middle class's turn is coming. They are cash cows to be milked at the moment. Who do you think funded the tax credits paid to BHS workers which nearly equal led the dividends paid out to Monaco?

They will end up deeper in debt slavery than ever

Yup, look across the pond to see your children's future. The working class were thrown under the bus from the early 1980s and now the middle class are being shoved likewise.

Speaking of buses, I was talking to a Lunnon bus driver a few days ago. He's one of the old hands on £20/hour. Newer hires are on half that. They're not staying in the job for very long. Funny how that happens.

Cappella

Yet services are stretched to beyond breaking point - because successive governments aren't investing in infrastructure or spending money sensibly on the needs of the current population, let alone planning for the future. Its easy to blame migrants (they're the latest in a string of scapegoats governments have tethered to distract the population) but whether Friday sees a Remain or Leave victory the problems will continue to deteriorate (and the next scapegoat will be whichever side wins the referendum).
And:
I see it (the referendum) as a the right wing having a power struggle over its future direction and leadership, whilst finding another set of issues to scapegoat and divide the population over. Whichever side wins I expect that the general population of this country are going to get shafted (and that we winning side will become the next set of scapegoats) and the political and business elites will continue laughing all the way to their tax havens.

I agree wholeheartedly with this post. It says what I was trying to put into words ( badly, sorry )yesterday. Whichever side 'wins' tomorrow we will be taking a step too little and a step too late. The situation we are already finding ourselves in is a direct result of the PTB to act in the best interests of the whole electorate of this country.
Where are the MPs and councillors in GreyQueens home town as the population struggles to cope with increasingly difficult issues? Why have they allowed shanty towns and multiple occupancy fire traps to exist in the first place? Because they don't really care about what's happening to anyone other than themselves. Divide and conquer works. Divide people by sowing seeds of fear and hate - " I blame the migrants" - works. It stops people taking that vital step back and questioning the status quo. We have a venial, self serving group of people 'serving' our communities, and I'm shockingly terrified that it's going to get worse before its get better. Our governments and councillors are the ones ultimately responsible for the mess we're in, and they're dragging us towards a future I don't want to be part of, but have very little choice about.

I'm sorry if I offend anyone here, but I have no time at all for politicians. I worked for 35 years in schools in the most socially deprived ward in the north west of England. I watched parents lose heart and hopes, and local councillors sit on their rear ends, grab their salaries and ignore the issues unfolding around them.

So, I'm going to carry on prepping for an uncertain future. Hoping for the best, but expecting the worse is the best coping mechanism I can come up with just now. Off to check my pantry and buy some tinned goods. You know where you're up to with a tin of beans - it makes quite a handy weapon too if necessary:)

GreyQueen

My hometown is in an area where the Conservative party have had lifetime tenure since the year dot. My city has a Tory muppet. I could laugh like a drain when some poor soul affected by the bedroom tax rants at the council that they'll go to the MP about it.

They don't even have to check the MP's voting record online, they've been open enough in the local rag about being pro-bedroom tax, if the electorate pays attention.

Face it, the ruling party in this country have a minority of the votes and don't give a monkey's about most people's concerns.

My concern is that what typically happens in these circumstances is the rise of right-wing demagogues and physical attacks by the dispossessed classes on migrants. It's like a pressure cooker around here right now, and was long before the referendum campaign. This is the biggest movement of people in Europe in peace time ever seen, and people are hurting and angry and even the so-called Labour Party doesn't 'get it'.

I'm seriously thinking of quitting my trade union over their support, even up to writing to members last week, of the Remain position.

moneyistooshorttomention

I don't get why I have the feeling the trade unions seem to be backing the "Remain" campaign. As I see it - its their own members jobs they are doing down (ie increasing the amount of available "cheap labour" willing to work for worse pay/conditions than we can afford to).

I must admit I'd be very torn right now if I were still working - as I always made it a principle to be a union member (wherever I was) and have been very active in the unions in my time. I would be tossing up as to whether to stay in the unions (ie as a form of "legal insurance" should I need it) or no.

The unions do need to be more aware than previously of how their members view this - as many of us have legal insurance in this day and age. Certainly my own insurance cover (as a householder) has covered me for "neighbour or EMPLOYER" problems for many years now. I no longer need the cover against employer problems - but I've had it for donkeys years now.

EDIT; I've just done a quick google to see how things are on this with my previous Union - and I would still be a union member okay then. They take the stance of "provide both sides of the argument and people work it out for themselves" - which I agree with.

Karmacat

Powerful, powerful posts - thank you GQ, thank you nuatha.

Capella, I totally agree, I have no time for politicians - I know everyone in the media is suddenly thanking them on the heels of Jo Cox's murder, and I feel desperately sorry for her family ... but its an extremely idealised view of the world, to understate it terrifically, to think that most are like the reminiscences we've heard about her.

I tell you what I think - for us right now, and for maybe the next 50 years, I don't think there's any doubt that Leave is right. Without a revolution based on our needs, I also think that the opposite will become the case, that Remain will eventually win the day, because the power of the vested elites wants it that way. I feel weird writing that - I haven't talked that way since I was in my 20s, but its how I'm thinking again now. Desperate times.

mardatha

Good post Cappella, the problem is with the govt and that includes the so-called Opposition who never seem to oppose anything!
Up here in the Outback things are very different to GQ's situation. Some 20 miles down the valley there is a wee former mill town that is becoming very run down. Lots of empty houses that were un-lettable, lots of shops that have been empty for years. In the last couple of years the Poles have transformed it - opened shops and started businesses - and in one famous street ofalways empty flats that was the province of the druggies, the transients and the students - the Poles have cleaned it up.
An electrician from my HA said to me he used to dread going there as the tenants were dodgy, weirdos with big dogs etc. Now he says the Poles have cleaned the place up, the windows sparkle, people wash their cars, plant flowers in the gardens and on balconies - and the men ran off some drug dealers who were hanging around the primary school gate.
This is good for our empty towns up here. They aren't (yet) taking anybody's jobs or businesses, they're def improving the place. But this is a world away from way down south where you have a far bigger and more complex problem.

Karmacat

The Poles, in particular, have much the same reputation near here, mardatha, in the south east anyway (holiday town south of London!) . My business partner used to rent out a house, only ever 4 people in it at most, and he was always glad to have Poles apply - they always looked after the place, asked to paint the rooms, that sort of thing. The British who moved in were quite a bit younger, on average, had never lived away from home, and didn't have a clue about looking after themselves, let alone the property. To be fair, neither did I, at 18 years of age but thats what he told me.

Toomuchdebt

Now as I'm of Polish background I have no idea which way to vote tomorrow. My parents came here in 1951 and 1969 respectively. I was born here and speak Polish fluently. My ex husband was from Poland and has since got a British passport. My ex partner is Polish and has kept his Polish citizenship only.So I can see both sides of the immigrants are good/immigrants are bad discussion. When my ex husband came to the UK he had to get a tourist visa for 3 months and was not allowed to work, he could then apply for a working visa for 6 months and after that he would be allowed to apply for a year I believe and then permanent residency. We got married instead part way into his 6 month visa and so he was granted residency on that basis. If we leave the EU I presume the UK will go back to this old visa system, which is fine, but what about the people who are already here? Most have families,some have bought houses. What's going to happen to people like my ex partner who is working and has 2 children with me,but he doesn't have his own house? Will he be forced to leave and apply for a working visa if we leave the UK?
The Poles here have a good reputation too. The Bulgarians and Romanians and Turks do not.It's all very worrying.I think we should leave, but i think we should stay too. My parents both have Polish citizenship and have already said if we end up leaving they will be retiring to Poland as things will get worse here.

nuatha

Toomuchdebt wrote: »

So I can see both sides of the immigrants are good/immigrants are bad discussion.

Despite much political posturing and media coverage, this is not the issue that the referendum is about.
There are campaigners on both sides saying we need immigration, Leave campaigners aren't presenting a common front on what they will do about immigration (and may well have to accept free movement as part of whatever trade deals they achieve with the EU).

RAS

maryb wrote: »

Someone who comes here to work for a few years - and work hard, there's no denying- is basically exploiting the difference between currencies' purchasing power. Selling their labour at a high price and repatriating it to buy goods and services at a low price. And you can't blame them.

But it is still arbitraging exchange differences, even if they are not sitting at a forex desk in the City. And it's a zero sum game

It is trade, and investment, not migration, that makes us ALL more prosperous. What we have at present is the commoditisation of labour and the enrichment of the elite.

That's not social justice

In my previous job I used to see the merry go round and the damage done to live by the spammers.

On the one hand were the multinational recruitment agencies; shifting qualified UK staff to North America, the Middle East and the Antipodes, for a nice fee each time. Then they cosied up with Bliar and sold him Filipina graduate nurses, for a fee. Except that the degrees most of them had were not worth it. Only 5 universities produced qualifications the same as a UK degree.

At the other end were the local agents working all over Africa and Asia. Some actually had UK contacts who could offer a couple of adaption places but the money came from bringing loads in on crap wages to work as HCAs whilst waiting for a mythical adaption place. And charging £thousands for the opportunity.

And then there were the pure scammers; who would charge £thousands and deliver nothing. One guy made metal boxes in India and only had an up front fee of £400, but once that was accepted he would charge more for each stage. Total con. Others were charging £thousands for working holiday visas; cost £40. And aa qualified teacher or health professional could not use it to get UK registration.

Legimate migrant employment expatriates money from the UK but every official scheme spawns multiple opportunities for the sharks to strip wealth from those in poorer countries. If you earn £40 a month as a teacher or sister the temptation offered by £1600 is understandable if you do not also understand the living costs.

Here endth a rant.