Preparedness for when

fuddle

As far as I can make out (source telegraph report plus looking at a government paper) we pay around 8/9 billion net for our EU membership. It is expected to go up by 3 billion in the next 5 years.

moneyistooshorttomention

fuddle wrote: »

Ho hum. MITSTM I don't know what box you wish to open surrounding my head and my heart. You'be lost me there pet. Be nice... I'm liking reading your posts of late

You can tell I'm not a great tv-watcher these days.

That was a reference to those old tv quiz shows "What do you want to do? Open the box or take the money" :rotfl:

My money's on you wanting to come out...;)

EDIT; Yep...that's the one - Hughie Green..

fuddle

I see

Already I have read that Britain's exit appeals most to older people and those of working class. A remain vote appeals to the more middle class, financially secure electorate. Opinion polls have been interpreted in a way that allows us to be labelled and boxed... "Hey, young and progressive which camp do you want to be seen in?"

This type of persuasion is tiresome for me.

We shouldn't judge a book by it's cover, where it lives or what job it does. This is important for all our futures. My head and my heart lies more way than another because of my sense of what I feel is right and wrong. We are damned if we do and damned if we don't as far as I can make out.

Just because I take an interest in the decline of our steel industry in Redcar (SSI is Thai owned and before that Indian Tata , before that Corus part Dutch. That plant hasn't been British Steel since 1999) doesn't mean I can be judged with which way my heart and mind is swaying.

This is bigger and should be better than perceived status.

moneyistooshorttomention

Well that's a load of old tommyrot (to use a very old-fashioned word) to think our actual/perceived status would influence how we vote on this. Anything less likely to be a factor in anyone's decision on how to vote I have yet to think of - or perhaps we should vote in accordance with the colour of our eyes then maybe? Now what way would people with green eyes vote then - just so I know which way I should vote (as that's the colour mine are)?:cool:

According to that - I should be voting to stay "In". NO chance of that - I couldn't wait to enter the date in my diary as Most Important Engagement that day to take my chance to vote "Out":rotfl:

nuatha

fuddle wrote: »

Those that voted in 1975 has what was suggested then come to fruition? Has being part of the EU been all it was cracked up to be? Were the debates then truthful? Did we know to the extent our own government wouldn't be able to bail out our own industry without permission from the EU? How much of our export already heads for non EU countries?

We joined the Common Market in 1973, the referendum was in 1975 on whether to remain a member or leave.
When we joined the fundamentals of how we traded with the British Commonwealth changed drastically and there was a feeling that there was no way back to that - it probably wasn't helped by the oil crisis, the three day week and a pile of other problems. The Common Market as was, was a very different proposition to the current EU.
Government support of industries is not forbidden by the EU, there are restrictions and safeguards which need to be met, but there are plenty of examples across the EU of government support to various industries, the British government has no interest in preserving British industry, the EU is a convenient scape goat. (Like everybody blames the Health and Safety Executive for banning conkers - completely false)

Political debates may or may not be truthful (depending on your definition of truth*) but they are never unbiased. In this case both sides are going to predict outcomes that really can't be anything other than pure guess work - until it happens they won't know.

*Truth is never as hard and fast as people want it to be. Telling the truth, but choosing precisely which truth's to tell is often the most effective way of lying.

nuatha

fuddle wrote: »

Already I have read that Britain's exit appeals most to older people and those of working class. A remain vote appeals to the more middle class, financially secure electorate. Opinion polls have been interpreted in a way that allows us to be labelled and boxed... "Hey, young and progressive which camp do you want to be seen in?"

Opinion polls are really accurate, just look at how the last general election was predicted, oh that's right, the opinion polls (every one of them) got it completely and utterly wrong. And they got it wrong in very different ways - which showed more about the bias of the poll companies and who commissioned the polls than it did about public opinion.
I don't know where you read that, but its setting out its agenda and its hoping to use a tactic that was used very effectively by Gobbels, by repeating the same few "facts" their agenda becomes the reality as people are convinced by what they are told, rather than by what they think.

fuddle

Maybe it's your age that sticks you in the out camp MITSTM It is tommyrot isn't it. I did read it in the telegraph a few month back. Like I said I read as much as I can to try to make my mind up. The Guardian annoys me just as much as does the BBC. Bias eh?

At the risk of sounding all misty eyed over SSI etc I am well aware that the best thing to do in order for the steel market to stabilise is for the least profitable to close. Unfortunately it hit our shores effecting our workwrs and our communities. I've seen what happens when industry ceases in the north east and the effects will be felt for decades. My post last night was to highlight how I felt the British government hid behind EU legislation when it could have done something (albeit naughty). If half of the conservative party are interested in our sovereignty then why did our ruling party not make those views
heard in a time when it really mattered?

Maybe my questioning is too based on my own ignorance in what actually goes on but I can't help question why so many are in the out camp now. I also question why Corbyn is in the In camp now as, forgive me if I'm wrong, I am so sure I was under the impression he was not a keen supporter of EU.

I also question the use of our national security in this. It is well known and reinforced this morning on BBC news that EU countries are poor at sharing information. That it's too complicated with too many countries all sharing... or not. The UK isn't in too much of a constant cahoots with member states as far as I can make out. The UK is in the 5 eyes with US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand and have signed a treaty for joint intelligence sharing. I find it bizarre that I cannot find such treaty for EU members.

So I'm in conflict and questioning everything, regardless of political party. So far there's muppets on both sides and I don't really want to be connected to any of them!

Edit: thanks nuatha.

Frugalsod

According to the demographics I should be a stay in the EU camp but I have dual nationality so exit will have no impact on me. I think we should leave because of the changes coming. My father was very pro but is now anti. I think as he has memory of what life was like before and seen how it has changed and how undemocratic it is now that has changed his opinion.

armyknife

Frugalsod wrote: »

According to the demographics I should be a stay in the EU camp but I have dual nationality so exit will have no impact on me. I think we should leave because of the changes coming. My father was very pro but is now anti. I think as he has memory of what life was like before and seen how it has changed and how undemocratic it is now that has changed his opinion.

I think he's just confusing the s**** that is this big money, post-thatcherite wasteland with it being the EU's fault.

If the like of John Redwood, Iain Duncan Smith and their fellow travellers get their way and we become some sort of neo-casino capitalism playground island cast off in the mid-atlantic, then if you're poor or vulnerable god help you, because their 'logical' outcome for you is the return of the workhouse.

fuddle

We no longer manufacture in favour of the service industry so a call centre workhouse maybe? Just messing.