Preparedness for when

moneyistooshorttomention

Nuatha

I'd be interested to know why you think there would be another Scots referendum if we come out of the EU?

(though admitted I am totally puzzled as to why anyone would even want to break our country up anyway and haven't been able to get my head round it that some people do...).

nuatha

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

Nuatha

I'd be interested to know why you think there would be another Scots referendum if we come out of the EU?

(though admitted I am totally puzzled as to why anyone would even want to break our country up anyway and haven't been able to get my head round it that some people do...).

One of the major arguments of the No campaign was that Scotland would loss its EU membership. If the UK leaves the EU that is a sufficiently major constitutional change that the once in a generation gentleman's agreement falls. Scotland is already "enjoying" the broken promises of the No campaign.
That gives three distinct sets of grounds that would pave the way to a new independence referendum, not only that but I do tend to follow politics and that's a question that is being asked at regular intervals in conjunction with the EU debate - most recently I heard it asked of Alex Salmond who is campaigning to remain within the EU, who admitted that leaving would trigger a new independence campaign.

We see the UK as very different things, I see the UK as a union of separate countries, which it is socially, politically and legally - you seem to see it as a unity.

maryb

But even if the Scots voted decisively to stay in the EU, they wouldn't automatically be in the EU even if they argued for and got another independence referendum, they'd have to apply and agree to adopt the Euro

[Deleted User]

Have just had a bimble around the interweb and it seems that the process of actually leaving the EU would take 2 years where the UK would have no say in the process and that the decision to leave the EU is irreversible, so where does that leave us? 2 years of wrangling and politicians arguing with each other here too??? oh what FUN!!!

Frugalsod

nuatha wrote: »

I've no idea which is likely to be the better outcome for the UK, I have no faith in the current government and if it wasn't for the EU and the Lords restraining them we would be in an even worse mess. If we leave the EU there's likely to be another Scottish independence referendum and I suspect a very different result.

I would have been in favour had it not been for the way the Germans treated southern Europe, and particularly Greece in regards to them not writing off Greece's un-payable debts. This only creates resentment, then moaning that a nation that has been wiped out financially is not doing enough for the refugees does makes me very anti EU.

I do think that until this crisis the EU had been a positive force within the country, I am not so sure now.

mardatha

I think we should stay in, but have a leader who would stand up for us and say yes we will do this but no we won't do that. Because the UK, whether we like being part of it or not, is an island - which nowhere else in Europe is.

nuatha

maryb wrote: »

But even if the Scots voted decisively to stay in the EU, they wouldn't automatically be in the EU even if they argued for and got another independence referendum, they'd have to apply and agree to adopt the Euro

There's an argument that if the rest of the UK left, Scotland could remain - I've no idea how well founded that is under the EU constitution. But there are people who are claiming that's the way it is, and others who will believe them.

In any case there would be a myriad of problems to be resolved, but there are a lot of people who see the alternative - a Tory led "independent" UK as worse.

In hindsight, a referendum before we entered the EU (Common Market as was) would have been sensible - rather than one two years later to ask if we should stay.
We can't return to a pre-1973 relationship with the rest of the world, the Commonwealth no longer trusts us and has developed new trade relationships of its own. I don't have any answers, I do have a lot of questions.

[Deleted User]

What a good thing there is the preppers thread eh? I don't care what the rest of the population think of preppers, it seems to me that there is a very unsettled time ahead of us all and that those of us who have given some thought to the possibilities of what might happen in the future will be in a better position to weather the fluctuations that will inevitably happen than those who haven't made any contingency plans at all. I don't mean the end of society as we know it but inevitably there must be unrest and worry and possibly shortages as well if the European countries we currently do business with make new trade alliances elsewhere. Power supply is my concern given how reliant we are on imported energy , think what leverage could be applied to the UK by the threat to withhold supplies???

pineapple

I have no idea whether we will lose out trade wise if we move. But I don't alltogether buy the security scare stories or the financial ones for that matter.

Wish I had kept the link but read a piece ages ago about how some of the initiators of the 'Common Market' were aiming at political union all along. Whether or not our then politicians were complicit remains to be seen.
It just gives me an uneasy feeling that we have been duped. It's been a gently tightening noose and whatever Cameron says, that noose can only get tighter.
Indeed I suspect it may already be too late. I am not convinced we will be allowed, one way or another, to leave anyway.
So that's my gut feeling on it.

Prepared to be 100% wrong however. Looking for some neutral source putting the argument both ways
But have a read of this. Something to applaud or something to be concerned about?
http://www.europedia.moussis.eu/books/Book_2/3/8/?all=1

Goes off to see if there is a horses head on her pillow

nuatha

pineapple wrote: »

Wish I had kept the link but read a piece ages ago about how some of the initiators of the 'Common Market' were aiming at political union all along. Whether or not our then politicians were complicit remains to be seen.

Well, one of ours certainly was, a guy called Winston Churchill. He was one of the architects of what became the Common Market and he certainly favoured a political union across Europe (and if memory serves was the first to use the phrase United States of Europe). Of course his vision did not see the UK as a member of this organisation, Britain would be the interface between Europe and the British Commonwealth. He saw a United Europe as a preventative for the wars that had raged across Europe and as security for Britain.