Preparedness for when

Frugalsod

MrsLurcherwalker wrote: »

I don't think the comparison can be made between the terrorist organisations in existence in the present day and anything of that nature that has gone before. I feel that these new groups are barbaric beyond even a foetid imaginations wildest imaginings, they give the impression of revelling in the bloodletting and mayhem that they perpetrate, enjoying the cruelty and taking of lives in the most archaic and brutal way they can, and I think we can't NOT change as a society but must change in ways that we feel are necessary not be forced into changes by the actions of the terrorist organisations. Some of those changes will inevitably not be what a peaceful and democratic society will be happy with but will be necessary for our protection and you can't have life both ways. Either the law enforcers and armed forces will be given the powers they need to ensure the safety of the population and people will have to accept or we can roll over on our backs and do nothing, letting the terrorists free rein to do whatever they want to. I know which alternative I'd be happier with.

You can. They both only have a very few active terrorists and the rest are just supporters. The change that society must make is not voting in idiots who see their legacy as strong leaders by bombing places far away. If we did that and gave more support to these countries to stop them crumbling into hell holes it would eliminate the scope for most terrorists and the need to spend a lot to maintain these nations.

moneyistooshorttomention

MrsLurcherwalker wrote: »

If 5 people are investigated and one is found to be planning an atrocity surely that validates checking the other 4 if they are close associates/relatives of the one who is guilty? If the police just checked one of the five and not the rest and it was NOT the evil intender who then went on to plant a bomb/suicide bomb an innocent crowd of people how much mud would be slung their way for NOT checking associates and relatives if there was a terror attack? It would be seen as dereliction of duty. Much better to have everyone checked, no matter how many people that is and find the guilty ones than be wary of treading on toes and letting terrorists free to do what they plan.

Whilst I can see that there is a lot of truth in that old phrase of "Birds of a feather flock together" - nevertheless one cannot judge by that necessarily. That is all the more the case when it comes to relatives - that phrase of "You can choose your friends - but not your relatives" comes straight to mind.

I can instantly think of a very close relative (ie my brother) who is nothing remotely like me and thinks/acts nothing remotely like me. I would be thoroughly upset, to say the least, if I was judged on his ideas and conduct. The reverse would probably be true as well:rotfl:. The only thing we have in common are having the same parents as each other.

My parents aren't very like me in many ways/a heck of a lot of ways:rotfl:. There are several "meeting points" - in that all 3 of us tend to believe in being truthful/honest/standing up for our rights/managing our money responsibly. But - beyond that.....there are huge differences in many respects.

You cannot be held accountable for what your relatives do - and vice-versa. Just look at those parents of Isis-type people who have denounced them on the one hand. Just look at those old-fashioned parents from an old-fashioned much less liberal culture than our own and that are trying, for instance, to prevent their younger relatives choosing their own relationships on the other hand - but those younger relatives have decided to adopt our way of life and choose their own relationships/careers in the same way we take for granted on the other hand.

You cannot judge by someone's relatives.

[Deleted User]

I think the new breed of terrorist isn't about politics, which the IRA, INLA etc most certainly were, I don't recall ever seeing what the objectives of Al Quaida or ISIS are or any of the other modern terror groups either other than to eradicate the rest of humanity and have free rein to live under their rules, world domination perhaps?

I'd hate to have TPTB knowing of an active threat waiting to the last moment and being too late, it would only need a split second to make the difference between a suicide bomber detonating the bomb or not, not a margin for comfort.

I don't know how many active terrorists ISIS have, they seem to have a large tract of land under their control and people according to the media are streaming to their territory and they have much support, look at the number of people who have been stopped from joining them and that's only from this country.

I agree that bombing a foreign country on what might have been a pretext and certainly doesn't seem to have been from proof is totally wrong in every conceivable way, but how do you actually KNOW what actions anyone put into power as leader of the government will do when they are in power, it's not possible.

I so, so, so wish I had any kind of answer to the ills of this world, there is no right and no wrong I suspect and we're all part of the problem and possibly all part of the solution, I just don't know what that will be, does anyone else?

moneyistooshorttomention

Bedsit_Bob wrote: »

I think you can. Irish sectarian terrorism was, IMO, every bit as horrific as the current terrorism.



More barbaric than putting bombs in litter bins, on a busy Saturday afternoon, killing two children and injuring dozens of other people?

More barbaric than planting a bomb at a Cenotaph, on Remembrance Sunday, killing eleven and injuring sixty three more?



And the IRA, INLA, etc. didn't?



I'm reminded of a saying I heard many years ago.

I'd rather die on my feet, than live on my knees.

To me, freedom is non-negotiable.

Could not agree more - ie the phrase "die on feet, than live on knees".

It boils down to a very stark choice imo:
- Do I want, say for the sake of argument, 70 years of living "normally" and then Summat Horrible comes along and I have the choice between living and dying (make mine dying instantly then personally)

OR
- said 70 years of letting myself pushed around by my own Government etc etc and never quite daring/being able to live a Normal Life (ie by late 20th century Western standards)

and it boils down to = No Contest and I'll take the first one personally.

Now how do people from two opposite ends of the spectrum - ie someone who has been in the Armed Forces I believe and a former Peace Campaigner both come to the same conclusion?:rotfl::rotfl: - but it seems its possible:rotfl:

Frugalsod

MrsLurcherwalker wrote: »

I think the new breed of terrorist isn't about politics, which the IRA, INLA etc most certainly were, I don't recall ever seeing what the objectives of Al Quaida or ISIS are or any of the other modern terror groups either other than to eradicate the rest of humanity and have free rein to live under their rules, world domination perhaps?

The IRA were basically common criminals who used the political struggle to get cushier prison cells and even negotiate their release. The IRA and the protestant equivalents basically controlled the drugs and vice and used the political angle to maintain support.

IS or ISIL are basically criminals using the Koran to cover up the fact that they rob banks and steal oil to sell to dodgy countries but in the end they are just criminals using religion as their shield to cover up their true intentions.

Do you think that either of them could have recruits like they had or have if they admitted that they were common criminals? Would families leave good jobs to go to Syria to become part of a criminal gang if it were that clear? What ever the "cause" they are both simple criminal gangs.

[Deleted User]

I don't know, it depends on what they are using as recruitment material and what people are prepared to accept and ultimately to do. I don't have any answers, I could wish things were very different and that this fragile old world was totally at peace but as they say If wishes were horses then beggars would ride. I don't have any answers, I just don't!

moneyistooshorttomention

FrugalSod

and its a been a very very reluctant indeed conclusion on my part:(:eek::(:eek: - but I have had to come to the conclusion recently that there are people who honestly really like being absolutely incredibly nasty/bloodthirsty/etc/etc .

That is a very bitter pill indeed to swallow and I cant quite get my head round it....but that is the conclusion I am coming round to I'm afraid...and I honestly hope someone is going to prove me wrong.

I can (just just just) about get my head round how people might be illogical enough to blame others for the sins of their respective ancestors (if in a "you...what the heck??????? forgawdsake be realistic" viewpoint - ie because its got absolutely zilch to do with our generation and beyond) but this sort of thing (ie the sheer gratuitous bloodthirstiness of ISIS) is WAY beyond me.

daz278

finally got my internet back, my kitchen is being replaced currently a shell , plastering bathroom on monday , my stores of water and bowl will be good for a swill . 2 weeks before work is finished........Wasnt it Ben Franklin that said " Those societies that restrict freedoms in the pursuit of safety and security ......Deserve Neither" have a good weekend

[Deleted User]

daz278 wrote: »

Wasnt it Ben Franklin that said " Those societies that restrict freedoms in the pursuit of safety and security ......Deserve Neither" have a good weekend

You were close.

It was actually "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

I quoted it earlier.

thriftwizard

I think what we all need to remember is that we only "know" what those who control the flow of information want us to know. I'm not making apologies for any gang of bloodthirsty thugs who want well-meaning innocents to believe they're trying to save the world from us & our "way of life" (which at the end of the day is coming perilously close to wrecking our own natural life-support systems) but I suspect we are only ever hearing half the story, if that. It's very easy to leap to conclusions, particularly when we feel threatened, and demand that someone somewhere do something about it, but we do need to remember that that something may later be used against us ourselves. Especially if we're getting in the way of our lords & masters making yet another fast buck...