Preparedness for when

jk0

Thanks Marie, that was really interesting.

Would 'immigrants' even be entitled to the things you mention though?

jk0

Karmacat wrote: »

I'd like to hear too, ivyleaf, but I suspect she's too busy prepping!

Just seen this on the Guardian website about savers' protection being lowered at the end of this calendar year: http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/jul/03/bank-of-england-cuts-savings-protection-euro-crisis

Because of the strength of the pound against the euro! Mad!

Unless of course your country is also bankrupt. Then the protection is lowered by considerably more:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-03/greek-banks-considering-30-haircut-deposits-over-%E2%82%AC8000-ft-reports

Sh*t a brick!

moneyistooshorttomention

jk0 wrote: »

Unless of course your country is also bankrupt. Then the protection is lowered by considerably more:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-03/greek-banks-considering-30-haircut-deposits-over-%E2%82%AC8000-ft-reports

Sh*t a brick!

Which is also obviously a good point:eek:

I'm still struggling to get my head around the Greek banks having so little cash actually sitting there "in the vaults" and don't know enough about how The System works to know if the Greek citizens are still able to "play with figures on a screen" and make debit card payments as per normal (as that doesn't involve handing over of actual notes and, if figures on a screen just change from being with Person A to being with Person B then that doesn't involve cash).

My head hurts - trying to figure how this would actually work...

So, can someone explain in clear terms what would happen if I, for instance, was living in Greece right now and knew I had £1,000 sitting there in the bank and decided to make a debit card payment to Person B for £800 of that money to pay for something. Would that still be possible whilst the bank was sitting there saying "We don't have much physical cash and you are only allowed to take out £50 of your £1,000 in physical cash". Presumably, it would - as The System is that there hasn't been sufficient cash in the vaults anyway all round for quite some years and we mainly "play with figures on a screen anyway" iyswim.

My head just keeps running round "This does not compute...." lines.

*****************

The other thing here is that that 8,000 euros amount they mention must about equate to amounts held over our £6,000 maximum amount of savings people on benefits are allowed to have. Hmmm...:think: thinks I may not be far wrong in thinking that theft by bail-in might be restricted to amounts over that £6,000 to working age people/£16,000 to State Pension Age people.

thriftwizard

I think the worst thing, long-term, about so-called "haircuts" is that it undermines trust in the banks. If people suddenly do realise that their money isn't safe in the bank - not that it ever has been! - what will that do to the whole basis of our economy?

I've mentioned the possibility to one or two members of my extended family lately, as we're dealing with winding up an estate. (At some stages there'll be a fair amount of money in the bank, though it won't seem very much when it's distributed amongst 25.) I've met with complete, blank incomprehension and disbelief, so I'll keep my mouth shut & fingers crossed from here on in. These people are professionals; highly-trained accountants one & all, one of them an ex-banker, albeit not at a senior level. Middle-class & comfortable, if not rich, their faith in our system is complete, and I have a strong feeling that they honestly believe, "It couldn't happen here!"

It will be when people like them get hurt that it really will all start to come apart.

nuatha

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

So, can someone explain in clear terms what would happen if I, for instance, was living in Greece right now and knew I had £1,000 sitting there in the bank and decided to make a debit card payment to Person B for £800 of that money to pay for something. Would that still be possible whilst the bank was sitting there saying "We don't have much physical cash and you are only allowed to take out £50 of your £1,000 in physical cash". Presumably, it would - as The System is that there hasn't been sufficient cash in the vaults anyway all round for quite some years and we mainly "play with figures on a screen anyway" iyswim.

Wages and pensions will be paid, internet banking works normally, payments or money transfers out of Greece are prohibited unless sanctioned by the government as vital to the national interest. The ATM limit does not apply to cards issued outside of Greece.

There is not sufficient cash held be any UK bank to honour all its account holder transactions, so it should be no surprise that Greece has this issue.

My head just keeps running round "This does not compute...." lines.

*****************

The other thing here is that that 8,000 euros amount they mention must about equate to amounts held over our £6,000 maximum amount of savings people on benefits are allowed to have. Hmmm...:think: thinks I may not be far wrong in thinking that theft by bail-in might be restricted to amounts over that £6,000 to working age people/£16,000 to State Pension Age people.

As I've said several times, the limit will be whatever the government decides, and given our current government, I would expect a far lower limit than may be applied by politicians of almost any other political persuasion.
Frankly if we enter bail in territory withing the next 4 years I would be surprised if the exemption limit was over £1000. No matter what savings deposit guarantees exist, it would be easy for a government to either amend the law, or simply except a bail-in from the current legislation.

Only 3% of the population have in excess of the £85K currently protected, Cameron et al seem determined to punish the poor for the excesses of the bankers, so a far lower limit would raise more money for any given percentage amount.

ETA: If I'm wrong and preparations made accordingly aren't needed, then all I've lost is the minute amount of interest that is currently offered to savers (and I'll have gained far more than that in reducing the inflationary shopping bills.) If I'm right, I won't be saying I told you so.

[Deleted User]

Most folks only like 'nice' things and very much tend to be 'head in a bucket of sand' about anything vaguely disconcerting, it's not quite irresponsible but definitely verging on it but is really attributable to the 'they'll fix it' attitude that prevails throughout society in the west. We've had a time of peace (in the main) since the end of WW2 and folks have become complacent and used to having problems dealt with and sorted out by TPTB. Most folks are only concerned with their own comforts and have this complete belief that 'they' will never let 'it' happen. Being outside that is not always comfortable, both from the awareness of what might potentially happen and from the stunned disbelief on the faces of those people who hear the common sense advice you are giving them.

On the whole though, even though it is a less cushioned and rather more anxious place to be in I would much rather know and at least make an attempt to circumvent and lessen the impact of any event that may happen. I'm more and more convinced that the preps WILL be needed and in the not altogether distant future either. We live in such uncertain times, there is a daily addition on the news channels of more potentially disruptive possibilities and surely it is more sense to be aware of this and try to make some provision, no matter how small, for your own safety and well being than to party on to the end in blissful ignorance?

moneyistooshorttomention

Not to underestimate there is a logic in "partying on" so to say. The financially irresponsible = because that's what irresponsible people do. The financially responsible = because we know that we've done everything we possibly can/been thoroughly responsible and generally organised/"done our bit" all round and don't deserve Major Financial Problems from the direction of Society as a whole.

It's entirely understandable to think "I have done my bit/been good/etc/etc" and realise that rain falls on the good, as well as the rest if it comes so to say - but to think "It doesn't compute - and what really can you do if the irresponsibles have brought the rest of us down with them in the end?"

I watch the Greek news right now and there is quite a bit of info. about quite a few of the Greek people themselves are in the category of "irresponsibles" personally and haven't paid their tax/have claimed benefit they aren't due for/etc/etc and there is a justice in people like that suffering - as just who did they think was going to make up the shortfall in the nations coffers from all their grabbing for themselves personally regardless?

However, there are the "responsibles" there too (as in any nation) that will have "done their bit"/paid their way/etc/etc and its entirely understandable that they are wondering how come the others have brought them down too. Actually the "responsibles" have more to cope with (in their own head) than the "irresponsibles" (who, at least, deserve it and in their heart of hearts know they do).

[Deleted User]

No one is exempt, what happens covers us all and any one of us can and likely will be in the wrong place at the wrong time. It isn't possible to completely avoid 'events' because we are, each and every one of us, members of the same society. I don't seek to right the woes and wrongs of the world, I do however try to look ahead as much as I can and at least have some sort of a contingency plan in place for those things over which I do have a little control. It seems to me madness to NOT do so. I know we will be affected by events along with the rest of humanity but I like to have skills and knowledge in my brain and in practise in my life that will give us a much better chance of surviving through those events and making it out the other side.

mardatha

Meanmarie, my mum was from Galway and all my life I have wanted to retire to Ireland. I'll tell you - another 4 years of this s*dding bl**dy Westminster govt will finally push me over there!

moneyistooshorttomention

Yep...many of us indeed do what we personally individually can to prepare as best we can against every eventuality etc. Count me in that camp - off to do another tiny bit towards personal preps. again today.

A couple of things have certainly got me pondering on the different mindsets people come from in the first place - and hence why anything Major would have a different effect on what is actually going on inside someone's mind and how they would react.

We've just seen here on this thread that some of us (including me) basically work on the assumption that everything is exactly the same in Southern Ireland as in Northern Ireland/Scotland/Wales/England - except that they have a different currency. We've had it explained to us that we were wrong in just assuming that - and fair enough.

Which actually brings me round to wondering "How will different communities react to Anything Major as a community?". In some communities its basically the case that the most able people rise to the top (in the main) and are the "prime movers and shakers" in the community. In other communities its more a case of "big fish in small pond/you scratch my back and I scratch yours". That being the case - then how do people see different communities rising to the challenge?

I'm certainly watching two little local communities here at close range and one "works" and its largely down to One Very Able/Genuinely Caring person at the helm and the other one doesn't "work" very well and that is largely down to Group of Old Cronies have been used to "scratching each others backs" and getting preferential treatment for no particularly good reason. The difference between these two communities is absolutely startling......you can guess which one I live in of the two and that I gravitate towards the other one as much as possible...