Preparedness for when

nuatha

westcoastscot wrote: »

Hi Guys,
apologies if this has already been highlighted - haven't had chance to read back yet
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/22/police-home-secretary-approve-use-water-cannon-austerity-protest
wonder what's coming to prompt this???

They authorised sonic cannon last year for "crowd control" though most of them were borrowed, I believe some were actually bought for ongoing use.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2143308/Sonic-cannons-emitting-pain-inducing-noise-used-Olympics-crowds-control.html

thriftwizard wrote: »

WCS, to be honest that's terrifying, that they are seeking a blanket permission like that. If they'd said it was to control riots, fair enough. But to control demonstrations? Surely we are allowed to demonstrate peacefully our disquiet at some of the extreme measures being pushed through, that are hurting & frightening vulnerable people who don't deserve this anxiety? Whilst the fat cats just get fatter, on our backs?

We used to be, I'm not sure the powers that be see any difference between the two these days.

We've increasingly been moving down this route. Since the The Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 criminalised previously civil law protest offenses, there have been various moves to make any form of demonstration illegal.

I do wonder what is planned that the Government is worried about this level of reaction to it. (wonder may not be the right term, worry could well be).

GreyQueen wrote: »

Given that EROEI is down to cold hard physical facts, and that we probably can never get our mitts on a lot of the oil which remains, this blindness seems quite deliberate. I suspect that the wealthy and powerful are going to take the rest of us for everything they can get before hunkering down and hoping to ride out the conflicts, the starvations, the refugee fluxes caused by climate change.

I wouldn't even be at all surprised if the elite were making serious preparations to get off this planet before our wastage of our natural resources is too far gone for us to have the energy to throw spacecraft up out of the gravity of poor dear planet Earth. And that they'd be quite happy to leave the rest of us to rot.

You might enjoy Elysium a 2013 film along these lines, should be out on DVD by now.

Pollyjuice

JayneC wrote: »

After due consideration I have decided to work towards buying some woodland...
what could go wrong
...

Hi JayneC, we looked into buying some woodland from w00dlandtrust, but beware, they have so many covernants involved that we decided against it. Basically we worked out that if we bought the wood then we could not alter it/camp in it/hunt in it and carryout any activities that would upset the seller! They wanted to wood to look/remain the same but without the maintanance costs. Read the small print very carefully. But good luck with your hunt. We're still looking/dreaming.

ALIBOBSY

thriftwizard wrote: »

GQ, ever read Ben Elton's Stark? That's the basic premise of the book. Well disguised & not exactly brilliantly written, but as usual with his humour, the idea itself is entirely plausible.

WCS, to be honest that's terrifying, that they are seeking a blanket permission like that. If they'd said it was to control riots, fair enough. But to control demonstrations? Surely we are allowed to demonstrate peacefully our disquiet at some of the extreme measures being pushed through, that are hurting & frightening vulnerable people who don't deserve this anxiety? Whilst the fat cats just get fatter, on our backs?

I love Ben Elton, one of my fav writers. Although to be fair Stark was, I think, his first book. His book "first casualty" based around the futility and horror of the first world war, all weaved around a crime investigation is brilliant-funny and sad at the same time.

Ali x

Frugalsod

nuatha wrote: »

We used to be, I'm not sure the powers that be see any difference between the two these days.

We've increasingly been moving down this route. Since the The Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 criminalised previously civil law protest offenses, there have been various moves to make any form of demonstration illegal.

I do wonder what is planned that the Government is worried about this level of reaction to it. (wonder may not be the right term, worry could well be).

Actually I suspect that they are worried about dangling on the end of a noose. Look at what is happening in Kiev. That could happen here easily enough given the right conditions.

nuatha

Frugalsod wrote: »

Actually I suspect that they are worried about dangling on the end of a noose. Look at what is happening in Kiev. That could happen here easily enough given the right conditions.

I do wonder if they are out to provoke that very reaction.

Frugalsod

nuatha wrote: »

I do wonder if they are out to provoke that very reaction.

Actually I do not think that they really care enough to not provoke that reaction, but do care enough to try and stop it once it blows up. I think that they are more worried about hanging onto power than actually doing anything good for the people at large.

westcoastscot

I've always thought there is more to come in terms of "austerity measures" - and am fairly sceptical about the talk of the economy growing, the recent apparent IMF confirmation of growth, lowering of unemployment etc but this is the first thing I've seen that for me is concrete evidence that tptb are planning for and expecting the worst this year.
A few of you know I work with the most marginalised people in society and I do wonder how much worse it can get? our client group has grown hugely in the past two years - its getting harder for even this optimist to see a way forward.
Anyway off to work - Hollyberry I have your pm and will respond at the weekend
WCS

jpscloud

GreyQueen wrote: »

I wouldn't even be at all surprised if the elite were making serious preparations to get off this planet before our wastage of our natural resources is too far gone for us to have the energy to throw spacecraft up out of the gravity of poor dear planet Earth. And that they'd be quite happy to leave the rest of us to rot.

I sometimes amuse myself with the thought that if the obscenely rich and greedy were all to burger off into space, the rest of us could get on with living more peaceful and contented, slower paced lives. They'd continue their frenetic and destructive groping for power and wealth while we'll drive our ponies and traps into market with a few chickens to barter.

Well, I can dream and it would serve them right.

GreyQueen

westcoastscot wrote: »

Hi Guys,
apologies if this has already been highlighted - haven't had chance to read back yet
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/22/police-home-secretary-approve-use-water-cannon-austerity-protest
wonder what's coming to prompt this???

I was aware that Boris was muttering about water cannon for London but wasn't aware that ACPO already take it upon themselves to go shopping internationally for used models. Excuse me, the Association of Chief Police Officers, isn't it? Ultimately public servants paid for by our taxes, taking it upon themselves to acquire equipment presently not legal for use in the mainland UK? With tax-payers money, I presume? To turn on the people? Anyone else finding that a bit much? What else do they think they have a right to do? Raise a private army?

They're probably looking enviously at the Department of H-meland Security over in the USSR with all their millions of hollow-point bullets and thinking If only..... The USA seems to be equipping itself for major conflict on its own territory. Unless the Canadians or the Mexicans are getting particularly dangerous, one must assume that they're intending to shoot their own citizenry. Some of whom are equipped to shoot back. They could end up Balkanised.

craigyw, hear what you're saying about the refilling of the water cannon where you live. Of course they'll refill them wherever they can, they won't give a toss about waterborne diseases or inflicting shock on rioters.

I've long thought (as in thought for decades) that benefits are the only thing which has kept the lid on the filthy levels of income equality in the UK. The Roman elite, trying to keep the lid on a vastly unequal city of 1 million people, knew that you had to have panem et circensis, literally bread and games more usually rendered as "bread and circuses". The corn dole gave the citizen poor a very meagre subsistence and the games gave them distractions. And with those two, the elites of Ancient Rome aimed to appease their 99 percenters and keep on with their sweet lives.

We have social benefits and the media serving the same purposes. If you take away the "bread", the circuses don't work so well. Nothing is so demanding of the attention as a hungry belly. Particularly if that hungry belly is your child's and you are anything like a halfway competant parent. And if you're homeless, or have a home with no power because you can't pay your leccy bill, your techy circuses ain't working any more.

To control people, they need to have something left to lose. If a person is destitute and told Hey, you're under 25 so, under the new regs, even though you've been paying taxes for years, we won't help you with your housing costs. No savings? Too bad, go back to your family. No family, parents dead, family home split, overcrowded, whatever? There's plenty of cardboard for your own little hovel on the pavements, peasant. Come talk to us again when you're working and we can tax you again.....how dare you imagine that you were something more than a debt-serf, born to be shorn for our benefit.

Wasn't one of the battle cries of the American Revolution "no taxation without representation?" How about no-takee my taxes without guarantees of support in my hour of need?

thriftwizard wrote: »

GQ, ever read Ben Elton's Stark? That's the basic premise of the book. Well disguised & not exactly brilliantly written, but as usual with his humour, the idea itself is entirely plausible.

No. But I intend to rectify that asap. And will see if I can rent Elysium. I can't claim the idea of elite flight to be mine own, it's turned up in several places in SF over the years, a genre I have read widely.

It's tough making predictions, particularly about the future, but I'd diarise a major terrorist incident at the Winter Olympics, riots in several UK cities in whatever turns out to be the hottest part of the summer, some more major scandals from the politicians and an upswing in crime and disorder everywhere.

thriftwizard

It's tough making predictions, particularly about the future, but I'd diarise a major terrorist incident at the Winter Olympics, riots in several UK cities in whatever turns out to be the hottest part of the summer, some more major scandals from the politicians and an upswing in crime and disorder everywhere.

How about some kind of failed terror event? Just a couple of bodies, say, mostly the "perpetrators"? That way they can keep us scared whilst showing what an excellent job all these lovely shiny new laws are doing of keeping us safe...