Thing to shut off a radiator - what's it called?

Leif

unclebulgaria wrote: »

Leif you still missed the point!
Its a forum to post advice, some of the advice, like i said, an accident waiting to happen. There's a lot of information that's not posted when people say "its easy"!
You commented that I was scaring the OP into finding a trade to carry out the work, wrong again, I said it was a potentially costly mistake to take on work, involving dirty usually black water, in a property that almost definitely has carpets and possibly a room below to damage.

I will restrict myself to saying that you told the OP not to do the work themselves, and to get in a trade, as if they did it themselves the consequences could be dire. I guess given that Homebase and B&Q distribute leaflets which explain how to remove a radiator, you must consider them to be giving bad advice?

unclebulgaria wrote: »

You may be an accomplished DIY'er but that's all, I may walk into your house and spot your DIY and smile to myself as its wrong or barely right.

:rotfl::TPriceless. Have you thought about becoming a comedian?

Then you would be surprised by my standards, and those of the people I know. I prefer to do work myself when I can because I know it will be done to a good standard, and a very good finish. Mind you, a pro could hang a door in an hour or two, and it takes me three times as long. I paint at half the speed of a pro. I have to spend time investigating how to do something too.

I'm not knocking trades. I've said I have had some work done to a high standard, but you should not make such absurd remarks about my DIY work being to a low standard. I can understand someone getting in a trade for complex jobs (takes too long to learn the skills), or ones that take too long, or they are too busy, or do not have manual dexterity (some people don't).

unclebulgaria wrote: »

The clue is in the name "Moneysavingexpert.com" even if the OP was charged £40 for doing the work its a whole lot better than a couple of hundred if its done incorrectly. Hence the get 'someone in to do it"!
You made comments about trades not completing their work correctly and you're right there are lots of rip off merchants but a hell of a lot more good guys out there trying to pick up the pieces. Insurance company's are now refusing to pay out on damage caused by poor DIY work, the sensible route is to find a tradesman, a good one, and stick with them.
I will except your apology on behalf of the good tradesmen on this forum but cut the trade bashing down unless the OP has stated a tradesman has ripped them off please, work is increasingly hard to find (and get paid for) that goes for A.Penny.saved comment too.
Nuff said.

I guess from your point of view the internet must be a hateful thing, as people like me can find out how to do what we once thought was hard. It must impact your income. I'm sorry about that, but this is a forum where people share knowledge and that includes how to do work in the home.

Leif

martinthebandit wrote: »

Just in case the OP has not been put off by the 'discussion' it is a simple job and this link http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/REMOVING_A_RADIATOR.htm shows how its done.

Good link, but that is not the neatest of decorating jobs.

Leif

keithgillyon wrote: »

Well i guess some people are waiting for my response so I will.

As one of your "tradesmen" I resent that remark, we give our advice FREE on here, we have not got a vested interest at all we get no work & no money from here, we do it to try & help people save money & possibly have ago themselves, sometimes employing a trade is the easiest & most cost effective option, but if that isn't good enough for you may i suggest you sod off & leave the advice to those of us with a "vested interest"

Blimey, you do speak your mind.

Having trades on this site is invaluable, without doubt. They help make this place so useful. As you say, free advice too. I could not have decorated my house without the advice I received from helpful professionals on the Ultimate Handy Man site. They advised me to use Zinsser Gardz on my walls due to soaked in wallpaper paste. My neighbour is a retired upholsterer, very nice chap, and a mine of information. For example, he told me how to get fine plaster powder out of silicone sealant in the bathroom. (Apply a bead of neat squeezee, and leave overnight.)

Regarding vested interest, when trades start saying "That is an accident waiting to happen, you should not do that, get a trade in" for a task can be done by the average person, it raises suspicions.

ListysDad

Leif

You really do take the biscuit. I find it very amusing that you cherry pick and quote out of context to back up your lack of experience and incorrect assertions. Now do us all a favour and shut up.

Not one professional (because much as you might dislike the fact that is what we are) has said do not do it. What each and every one has done is assess the situation, based on years of experience, and provided the vital caveat that amateurs need in potential circumstances like these.

At the end of the day the OP can do whatever he sees fit. He/she can take the advice of an amateur or he/she can take the advice of professionals. It's not going to cause any of the professionals to lose a wink of sleep regardless of their decision. Most of us have given up trying to lead misguided amateurs who do not want to listen and simply do what we do (for free) as we have a social conscience and wish to give something back.

By all means keep spouting cos your amusing me. As for the poor OP just how much help do you think you're delivering them? Rhetorical question BTW.

martinthebandit

Leif wrote: »

Good link, but that is not the neatest of decorating jobs.

True, I hope it is before redecorating

cyclonebri1

ListysDad wrote: »

Leif

You really do take the biscuit. I find it very amusing that you cherry pick and quote out of context to back up your lack of experience and incorrect assertions. Now do us all a favour and shut up.

Not one professional (because much as you might dislike the fact that is what we are) has said do not do it. What each and every one has done is assess the situation, based on years of experience, and provided the vital caveat that amateurs need in potential circumstances like these.

At the end of the day the OP can do whatever he sees fit. He/she can take the advice of an amateur or he/she can take the advice of professionals. It's not going to cause any of the professionals to lose a wink of sleep regardless of their decision. Most of us have given up trying to lead misguided amateurs who do not want to listen and simply do what we do (for free) as we have a social conscience and wish to give something back.

By all means keep spouting cos your amusing me. As for the poor OP just how much help do you think you're delivering them? Rhetorical question BTW.

Why is everyone here out of step but you?

Look, my point was you simply do not know who is giving you advice on an open forum like this and I said listen to everyone and get advice elsewhere based on what you have learnt, or am I wrong.

It's bad enough in real life that someone can pass themselves of as trade but hiding behind a computer screen it's so easy.

And whether you choose to accept it or not there is an element of holier than thou attitude amongst some tradespersons, they simply think no one else can do the job, that was my "vested interest" point, nothing financial at all.

The bold bit in the quote confirms it.

And of course they want to do it for free or at least cheaper, you seem to have forgotten the point of this site, ie Money Saving

Insightful enough for you?

Leif

ListysDad wrote: »

Leif

You really do take the biscuit. I find it very amusing that you cherry pick and quote out of context to back up your lack of experience and incorrect assertions. Now do us all a favour and shut up.

Do you really have to be offensive?

ListysDad wrote: »

Not one professional (because much as you might dislike the fact that is what we are) has said do not do it.

Wrong. See post 24. Quite why you think I dislike the fact that you are paid to do work is beyond me.

ListysDad wrote: »

What each and every one has done is assess the situation, based on years of experience, and provided the vital caveat that amateurs need in potential circumstances like these.

At the end of the day the OP can do whatever he sees fit. He/she can take the advice of an amateur or he/she can take the advice of professionals. It's not going to cause any of the professionals to lose a wink of sleep regardless of their decision. Most of us have given up trying to lead misguided amateurs who do not want to listen and simply do what we do (for free) as we have a social conscience and wish to give something back.

By all means keep spouting cos your amusing me. As for the poor OP just how much help do you think you're delivering them? Rhetorical question BTW.

I had a chat with a couple of colleagues today. One said that a couple of weeks ago he helped his friend drain and remove his radiators. Another said that he had recently drained and removed the radiators in one room (now two rooms) ready for skimming the walls. I asked both how hard they thought the job was. Both said it was straightforward, and suggested you only needed a modicum of mechanical ability. One did point out that it would be hard if the radiators were too heavy to lift. That too is my experience having drained and removed my radiators on several occasions. I'm sorry you and others resort to abusing me, and others, in a patronising way, but that reflects poorly on you, not me. I note, as said before, that B&Q and Homebase provide free leaflets explaining how to do this. It seems that the only people who agree with you are those with a vested financial interest in pursuading people to pay a plumber to do the work.

I mentioned your price of £20 to do the job, and my colleagues both laughed. Whether or not that price applies in other parts of the UK I do not know, but it was no-where near the mark in the Portsmouth and Basingstoke areas.

Read again post 24. It is aggressive, offensive, and would scare the life out of anyone thinking about doing it for themselves. It reads like a a form of spam, along the line of a B&Q employee saying use B&Q. This forum is about exchanging information in a civilised manner. It is not about pushing your own trade, and denigrating others. If you and others want to add useful information, think something is missing, fine, but say it in the usual manner, rather than abusing forum members, and spreading fear.

Here is what UncleBulgaria said: "You may be an accomplished DIY'er but that's all, I may walk into your house and spot your DIY and smile to myself as its wrong or barely right."

That is arrogant, patronising and uninformed. He does not know me, knows nothing about my abilities and has never seen my work. Hence he cannot make that statement.

In fact I am a highly trained engineer, with 30 years experience of tackling problems that are far more complex than removing a radiator or hanging a door. I have experience of making objects in wood and metal to tolerances that you and he have probably never achieved. I am talking about 1/1000 of an inch, and better. I've machined components for a balloon borne X-ray telescope used by a university reasearch group, and making two German equatorial telescope mountings for home use.

I've seen work done by trades, and that done my friends and colleagues, and myself. I saw recently how a qualified electrician screwed my bathroom light switch to plasterboard, and it fell off. When I went into the loft to screw a support to a joist, I found that the trades who did my central heating and bathroom had pulled away large area of insulation, and not put it back. Friends had their central heating done by professionals. The boiler was put in the wrong place, the pipes were not chased into the wall as requested, and he had to redo some pipework in the third floor, as the plumbers had created an air lock, and cut into a joist in an unacceptable manner, and hence it needed strengthening. I could go on, but the idea peddled by UncleBulgaria that trades work to a very high quality, far superior to DIYers is complete nonsense, and no more than a trade trying to pursuade people to employ a trade rather than having a go at the jobs a DIYer can do. And don't accuse me of bashing trades, I am responding directly to unsupported statements posted about my work.

I'm not going to make any statement about your work, I don't know you, you don't know me, so how can I.

PasturesNew

Thing to shut off a radiator - what's it called?

It's called "A little man"....

Leif

PasturesNew wrote: »

It's called "A little man"....

:rotfl:Or a husband? (Aint't sexism great. Ahem )

ListysDad

Leif wrote: »

1 - Do you really have to be offensive?

2 - Wrong. See post 24. Quite why you think I dislike the fact that you are paid to do work is beyond me.

3 - I had a chat with a couple of colleagues today. One said that a couple of weeks ago he helped his friend drain and remove his radiators. Another said that he had recently drained and removed the radiators in one room (now two rooms) ready for skimming the walls. I asked both how hard they thought the job was. Both said it was straightforward, and suggested you only needed a modicum of mechanical ability. One did point out that it would be hard if the radiators were too heavy to lift. That too is my experience having drained and removed my radiators on several occasions.


4 - I'm sorry you and others resort to abusing me, and others, in a patronising way, but that reflects poorly on you, not me. I note, as said before, that B&Q and Homebase provide free leaflets explaining how to do this. It seems that the only people who agree with you are those with a vested financial interest in pursuading people to pay a plumber to do the work.

5 - I mentioned your price of £20 to do the job, and my colleagues both laughed. Whether or not that price applies in other parts of the UK I do not know, but it was no-where near the mark in the Portsmouth and Basingstoke areas.

6 - Read again post 24. It is aggressive, offensive, and would scare the life out of anyone thinking about doing it for themselves. It reads like a a form of spam, along the line of a B&Q employee saying use B&Q. This forum is about exchanging information in a civilised manner. It is not about pushing your own trade, and denigrating others. If you and others want to add useful information, think something is missing, fine, but say it in the usual manner, rather than abusing forum members, and spreading fear.

7 - Here is what UncleBulgaria said: "You may be an accomplished DIY'er but that's all, I may walk into your house and spot your DIY and smile to myself as its wrong or barely right."

That is arrogant, patronising and uninformed. He does not know me, knows nothing about my abilities and has never seen my work. Hence he cannot make that statement.

In fact I am a highly trained engineer, with 30 years experience of tackling problems that are far more complex than removing a radiator or hanging a door. I have experience of making objects in wood and metal to tolerances that you and he have probably never achieved. I am talking about 1/1000 of an inch, and better. I've machined components for a balloon borne X-ray telescope used by a university reasearch group, and making two German equatorial telescope mountings for home use.


8 - I've seen work done by trades, and that done my friends and colleagues, and myself. I saw recently how a qualified electrician screwed my bathroom light switch to plasterboard, and it fell off. When I went into the loft to screw a support to a joist, I found that the trades who did my central heating and bathroom had pulled away large area of insulation, and not put it back. Friends had their central heating done by professionals. The boiler was put in the wrong place, the pipes were not chased into the wall as requested, and he had to redo some pipework in the third floor, as the plumbers had created an air lock, and cut into a joist in an unacceptable manner, and hence it needed strengthening. I could go on, but the idea peddled by UncleBulgaria that trades work to a very high quality, far superior to DIYers is complete nonsense, and no more than a trade trying to pursuade people to employ a trade rather than having a go at the jobs a DIYer can do. And don't accuse me of bashing trades, I am responding directly to unsupported statements posted about my work.


9 - I'm not going to make any statement about your work, I don't know you, you don't know me, so how can I.

1 - No. It was a rude and a dose of my own medicine would do me good.

2 - Sorry Leif but you cannot quote that one. Look at it as a whole. Overall he says try it IF you are a competent DIYer. Like all of us he does express frustration and considerable caution.

3 - Just a cotton picking minute here Leif. Once again, no one, absolutely no one has said this job is NOT beyond the capabilities of a competent DIYer. What we have consistently said, and will continue to say, is that it could also be fraught with issues. I know not what you do but would you seriously suggest that someone simply 'has a go' at it simply because someone's written an idealised version of how it works? As a responsible professional you couldn't do that without the essential caveats!

4 - I'm sorry too (but it was fun...). That said, the common denominator here Leif is the response to your posts. Whilst you may feel victimised, a bigger person realises that it takes two to inflame and to see the common reaction to your posts points, in my experience, to your needing to take a long hard look at your behaviour too.

5 - Facts are what we base everything on. Please get your facts correct. It was not my post. Re read the above. I too laughed at that cost, but the principal was correct.

6 - I have at least three times which is why I can comment as I have thus far. Email, and its like, is an extremely difficult medium through which to communicate. We have no opportunity to assess the vital additional data such as body language and the nuances of tone volume etc which is why all text based language should really be read at least three times in order to try to understand what is being said rather than what one immediately thinks one understands.

If I am being super critical it could have been written more effectively. That said, what leaps out at me is the desire to help and that must override what some may see as a post born of frustration.

7 - Leif. Despite your high levels of competence in various fields, you would be the first to admit that you do not know it all. I have an HNC in Electronics but I fully realise that there is far more out there I do not know so try very hard to listen. I can relate to what he says and, unfortunately, he is perfectly correct. Very occasionally there are people who can do things and do them well but only very occasionally.

8 - The simple fact of the matter here is that we can all tell anecdotes regarding poor workmanship etc etc etc. This however is not a peeing competition. What it is, and what we must continually remind ourselves of, is a forum providing support. Yes it's hosted by money saving and, quite often, the overt prejudices displayed by posters regarding trades leap to the for - to the eternal dismay and frustration of those of us who feel a sense of social responsibility and so give posters the benefit of our time and experience for free.

Just calm down and think things through. It is impossible to feather the professional's nest by offering advice. If we wished to do that which you allude to we'd sit on the side lines and snigger up our sleeves or stay away. That way more of you would simply screw it up and we'd rub our hands in glee charging a kings ransom to put right your mistakes. It really doesn't take a lot to think things through and you are obviously capable of doing it.

9 - Despite being 'trade' I too have feelings. Like you I hurt when I or my kin are attacked. Perhaps what we both need to do is be a little more reflective and read things through even more times to look not at what is written but what is meant. If it isn't clear then we should ask instead of simply reacting. Deal?

David