Advise needed - Min age to buy a burial plot

no-oneknowsme

Oh Farley , what a horrible situation to be in. Your poor family must be going through he ll right now x

farley95_2

Yeah feels like we get over one thing to be hit with another!

GobbledyGook

I would speak to the hospital and find out the details of the actual plot. Often the plots for stillborn babies are not full plots and can be in a particular bit of the cemetery.

My friends baby was stillborn and they "own" the plot, but it's in a specific bit of the cemetery so they cannot bury anyone else there or anything. It just means that no other babies can be buried in that exact same spot. In the general plots you find that 3 or 4 babies will share a plot.

It may simply be that buying the plot just means that no other babies will be buried there. If it's a general plot within the cemetery then that may be different.

Edited to add - stillborn babies are not given birth and death certificates. They are registered in a different way, probably some of the things your daughter signed were that registration. That's why burials are often slightly different as well.

Elle7

Gobbledygook is right.

In England (I'm not sure if it is the same in Scotland) baby plots are free. A fee is only payable if you wish to personalise a headstone on the plot, or if you wish the plot to be only used for your child. In these cases, the cemetery involved usually allows the parents 2 months to purchase the plot before it can be purchased by anyone else. This doesn't have to happen, and most commonly, the plots aren't bought.

It doesn't appear that the father has done anything wrong. As it is a contract (usually for 25,50,75 or 99 years) and he is underage, his parents can act as guardian and purchase the plot for him.

If the two marry the plot will become an asset in the marriage, but your post suggests they are not together anymore. If that's the case, its worth keeping things civil. If his plot ownership causes any trouble, speak to the cemetry involved - they retain ownership and simply rent out the plots, so they should solve any disputes.

I'm so sorry for your daughter and your family.

farley95_2

Yes it is the deed to the plot that the ex boyfriend has brought.

Unfortuantley because he and my daughter have no relationship anymore, he's informed her on facebook after we found out what they'd done that "over his dead body is she having anything to do with that grave and your name isnt going on the headstone"

So its bad enough she had to go through the birth but now this......
How can this happen that a mother can stand and see her baby put into the ground but then has no right to even put flowers on his grave?
This is not a random bit of turf that gets sold to the highest bidder it should be automatically given to the mother who carried the baby surely or at least she should be advised of what is happening.

Mrs_Arcanum

Would definitely have a chat with whoever manages the cemetery. It does seem very odd that someone can buy a burial plot out from under your daughters control without any reference to her.

Is the father named anywhere as such legally?

Elle7

farley95 wrote: »

Yes it is the deed to the plot that the ex boyfriend has brought.

Unfortuantley because he and my daughter have no relationship anymore, he's informed her on facebook after we found out what they'd done that "over his dead body is she having anything to do with that grave and your name isnt going on the headstone"

So its bad enough she had to go through the birth but now this......
How can this happen that a mother can stand and see her baby put into the ground but then has no right to even put flowers on his grave?
This is not a random bit of turf that gets sold to the highest bidder it should be automatically given to the mother who carried the baby surely or at least she should be advised of what is happening.

There is logic to how it works but honestly, it won't help you to think about that right now. It's all very corporate and economical and not very...thoughtful or emotional.

I'd speak to the cemetery with regards to his threats, and they should intervene. I'd also get a copy of the rules - around here, at least, the rules are either that no flowers other than the headstone decoration can be left, or that anyone can leave them as long as they are tidy and follow the rules. I think (and hope) that it's unlikely he can stop her from either visiting or putting flowers down.

Headstones are also very traditional and usually have strict rules - typically they either have both names or none, I think he'd struggle to get his name alone on it. The only concern here is if he chooses one she wouldn't have chosen - and to be honest, that wont bother her for too long. The headstones looks are unimportant, it's the sentiment behind it.

Unfortunately we went through something strikingly similar within my family, and it is tough. It's not what you want to be going through, and I'm really saddened that her ex-partner thinks that this is a time to be hostile and vicious. I can only hope he grows up a bit.

As for practical advice - how did you find out he had bought it?

Although no one was allowed on the plot in our family for a while, due to the owners wishes, the cemetery did always allow the mother to enter and leave gifts as she wanted too. That may be some comfort to your daughter right now, although maybe not to you.

Anyway, how did you find out, and have you spoken to the cemetery about his threats?

Equally, was he named on the stillbirth certificate? I'm not sure if this would matter too much, as the plot bought by my family member had two unrelated headstones on it already, but it might be relevant if it's a singular plot and he had no legal right to it. You may be able to argue that you should have had first refusal - but you'd then have to pay the cemetery for the rights. We will start with the basics, and hope it doesn't come to this! It can be expensive to argue.

GobbledyGook

I would speak to the cemetery management and ask them about the process for buying the plot and their policy on a dispute.

The sad thing is your daughter probably was informed of the procedure, it's just obviously something that won't have sunk in at such a terrible time. It's a shame that the relations are so bad, but you may have to go down the road of some sort of mediation as there will not be rules to give preference to a mother over a father.

Speak to the cemetery team and find out what they can do. If it's a baby plot then there will also probably be limits to what sort of headstone they can place as well.

I know this must be horrendously upsetting for her, and i hope you don't mind me saying this. They cannot take away your daughters memories or change the fact that she was the babies mother. They cannot stop her attending the grave as cemeteries are public places, unless they plan to be there 24/7 they cannot stop her placing flowers (and most cemeteries don't allow other stuff to be left) and they cannot take her memories. The babies father will also be raw with grief and he's obviously lashing out in a horrible way, but he can't take away the most important things from her.

farley95_2

We only found out as we were visiting the grave and my friend said while we were down there go and ask what happens next etc in the site office, then we found out he'd already brought it.
Obviously my daughter got upset and the woman went red while telling us she couldn't discuss it anymore as we weren't the owners!
When I said was there a manager to speak to she advised they've never had this problem before and couldn't my daughter "be nice to the guy who brought it". At that point thought it was better to leave and find out what options we have before going back to ask for the manager again!
She's gone through all the paperwork given to her, she signed so much at 9am the next morning neither of us had a clue what was going on to be honest, but we definately have nothing with the fathers name on it and no certificate either from hospital.
Mmmm think we need to ring and ask the bereavement lady at the hospital and ask a few questions there first

Thank you so much for all your amazing knowledge and advise, I will let you know my detective work as I find out the information.
So hopefully in the future it won't happen again to someone else or at least our local cemetry

thefishdude

Mojisola wrote: »

If the parents are unmarried, the father has to be present to put his name on the birth certificate. If the parents are married, either can register the birth.

If the father's name is on the BC, the father has full parental rights.

i know this but i dint make my self clear basically my partner was in hospital so could nt register the birth therefor could nt put me down there for untill she got out of hospital and bascially registered me as father i couldnt do anything as we were un married