New European tariff

NFH

simax wrote: »

I will go and ask the questions as you may have a point.

Thanks for that. I've spotted another error that you might want to draw to your employer's attention. When roaming within the EEA but outside the EU VAT area (Åland, Gibraltar, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and French overseas departments), Orange has always correctly not applied VAT (indicated by a # on the bill). This means that an outgoing call, for example, should cost no more than €0.29 x 0.7999 = £0.231971 per minute. However, on the Orange roaming pages, it states that outgoing calls will cost 28.86p/min from these places, i.e. 24% more than is allowed. When Orange did this in 2010, I had to complain to Ofcom who took enforcement action (as explained in this other thread), but it seems that since 1st July 2012, Orange has reintroduced the overcharge in the affected places, at least according to its published prices.

buscape

They're all at it, T-Mobile and Three are charging 28.8p, Vodafone 28p and O2 35p!

http://www.three.co.uk/Support/Roaming_and_international/Going_abroad_Pay_As_You_Go/Destination_Details?content_aid=1214306374696
http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/services/going-abroad/details-by-country/france/detailed-costs/
http://www.vodafone.co.uk/personal/price-plans/pay-as-you-go/travelling-abroad/index.htm
http://travelabroad.o2-uktech.com/location.php

NFH

buscape wrote: »

They're all at it, T-Mobile and Three are charging 28.8p, Vodafone 28p and O2 35p!

http://www.three.co.uk/Support/Roaming_and_international/Going_abroad_Pay_As_You_Go/Destination_Details?content_aid=1214306374696
http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/services/going-abroad/details-by-country/france/detailed-costs/
http://www.vodafone.co.uk/personal/price-plans/pay-as-you-go/travelling-abroad/index.htm
http://travelabroad.o2-uktech.com/location.php

I see that Three, T-Mobile and Vodafone are charging 24p/min from the non-VAT places, 3.5% more than is allowed, unlike Orange who are charging 24% more than is allowed.

With regard to O2, my guess is that they have neglected to update their published charges on 1st July.

NFH

The worst offender seems to be Talkmobile. For example:

• In Germany, Talkmobile charges £0.70/MB, 4.2% more than the price cap of £0.671916/MB (including VAT).
• In Spain, Talkmobile charges £0.29/min, 4.2% more than the price cap of £0.2783652/min (including VAT).
• In Norway (part of the EEA), Talkmobile charges £0.25 to send a text, 3.5 times the price cap of £0.071991 (no VAT applicable).
• In Reunion (an integral part of France and the EU), Talkmobile charges £1.70/min, 7.3 times the price cap of £0.231971/min (no VAT applicable).
• In Gibraltar (part of the EU since 1973), Talkmobile charges £7.50/MB, 13.4 times the price cap of £0.55993/MB (no VAT applicable).

It's a shame that Ofcom can't take any action until an overcharged customer complains, as I expect that many customers will pay the charges without realising they've been ripped off. Ofcom should be proactively ensuring that the mobile networks abide by the law.

simax

I've had a response from the relevant department, this explains things....

The rate we should be using for the retail price caps is the average of the exchange rates published by the European Central Bank on 1 March, 1 April and 1 May and NOT the rate on 1 June. The average rate that we should be using is 0.82930. This has been confirmed by Ofcom.

The caps in £ using the correct 0.82930 exchange rate therefore are:

Voice-calls made (per minute): € 0.29 x 0.82930 = £0.2405 Voice-calls received (per minute): €0.08 x 0.82930 = £0.06634 SMS (per SMS): €0.09 x 0.82930 = £0.07464 Data (per MB): € 0.70 x 0.82930 = £0.58051 Data (per KB) (1024 KB per MB): € 0.06836 cents x 0.82930 = £0.05669 pence.

So the operators are using an average of the past three months exchange rates, and this has been approved by OFCOM. Rates above need 20% VAT added.

Hope that helps.

NFH

simax wrote: »

I've had a response from the relevant department,

What is the name of the "relevant department" and is this approach supported by the European Commission?

simax

That relevant department deals with compliance to the law. It's been agreed by OFCOM. Looks like all networks are using this calculation. Therefore it must be right, as I stated before.

NFH

The networks might be following Ofcom's guidelines in good faith, but Ofcom have got it wrong. The networks will ultimately have to comply with the regulations.

NFH

simax wrote: »

Voice-calls made (per minute): € 0.29 x 0.82930 = £0.2405

Why is Orange charging 28.86p/min in Norway (EEA) and Gibraltar (EU) then?

simax

NFH wrote: »

The networks might be following Ofcom's guidelines in good faith, but Ofcom have got it wrong. The networks will ultimately have to comply with the regulations.

I'm sure OFCOM haven't got it wrong.

In regards to Norway charges etc, I'm sure the VAT is excluded but the website is incorrect. I will chase this to clarify.