Would you like the UK out of the European Union?

chewmylegoff

Fella wrote: »

I would have thought there are two obvious problems with EU membership for starters: Being under the control of legislation cooked up in Brussels & having effectively no control over immigration.

well, in answer to those two points:

(i) we do of course have a reasonable amount of input into EU legislation; we draft a large amount of it ourselves.

(ii) whilst EU legislation isn't always ideal, there is very little of it which is actually completely crazy (or at least, it is no sillier or more convoluted than that generated by our own lawmakers - granted we would have more control as a nation - but does that equate to much greater control as a voter - not really in my view)

(iii) my view on immigration is that the real problems are the level of illegal immigration and the government's inability to remove illegal immigrants and failed asylum seekers. given that successive governments over many years have proved completely inadequate in controlling non-EU immigration at all, and specifically failed to remove illegal immigrants, then i don't see how leaving the EU and making all immigration non-EU immigration would really solve the problem.

chewmylegoff

lostinrates wrote: »

Well, my view is that being in the eu was a way dh used to leapfrog into the industry he wanted to be in. By using the language skills we could all aquire, and the gumption to go somewhere else in europe, instead of just complaining about other europeans being here, he turned the tables of being one of many of similar demographic applying for a jpb here, to being one amoung a few applying else where.

If we didn't have the house and so many animals we could do it again.

There are pluses available to us. That many choose not to take.

yes, although for people with the right skills, qualifications and experience this sort of thing wouldn't be a problem regardless of whether we were in the EU or not, there would just be a bit more red tape around it.

Conrad

pqrdef wrote: »

It will. The pressure to move manufacturing abroad is growing and will inevitably become irresistible.

Quite possible but none the less the hubb remains in Germany.
The very wrong policy to follow would be the unproductive wealth consuming policy Labour followed from 1997.

The near future lies in areas such as growing body parts to order (already been done), and using your own stem cells to for example eat your cancer or grow a new body part in - situ. Things like blindness will become a thing of the past like rickets. Britain is well placed to take a leading role in these and many other areas.

lostinrates

chewmylegoff wrote: »

yes, although for people with the right skills, qualifications and experience this sort of thing wouldn't be a problem regardless of whether we were in the EU or not, there would just be a bit more red tape around it.

Sure, but its aossibilty for every one now....people who say we get nothing in return for eu membership included. They might be getting nothing..but its arguable that they could get something if they wanted to, as individuals.

pqrdef

Conrad wrote: »

The near future lies in areas such as growing body parts to order (already been done), and using your own stem cells to for example eat your cancer or grow a new body part in - situ.

But this is consumption, not production. It all depends on states or individuals having made enough money by some other means to pay for it all.

jamesmorgan

Any discussions on the EU get complicated by the number of parallel agreements, for example:

a) European Free Trade Agreement (EFTA) - this provides free trade between EU states and certain non-EU states within Europe (currently Switzerland, Norway, Iceland and Lichtenstein)

b) The Schengen agreement - this allows for freedom of movement across countries. The UK and Ireland have opted out of this, but non-EU countries such as Norway and Iceland have opted in.

c) European Court of Human Rights - this provides a common legal framework and human rights for 47 states who together constitute the Council of Europe (which currently also includes all EU countries, but is entirely separate from the EU).

Based on this, it does bring into question exactly what is the EU? It is not required for free trade (encompassed by the EFTA), or freedom of movement (the Schengen agreement) nor a common legal system. One can only assume that the primary purpose of the EU is to provide a framework that will ultimately lead to a United States of Europe. If the UK doesn't wish to proceed down this route, the most sensible course of action is to simply join the EFTA.

A._Badger

How commenters can suggest there is little wrong with the EU when it it riddled with wholesale corruption (to such an extent that the auditors consistently refuse to sign off its accounts), is responsible for the wasteful shambles that are the Common Fisheries Policy and the CAP and burdens us with endless rules and regulations over which we have little influence, boggles the mind.

What is this auto-immune disease that makes people have such little faith in their own country that they would rather it didn't even exist?

pqrdef

A._Badger wrote: »

What is this auto-immune disease that makes people have such little faith in their own country that they would rather it didn't even exist?

It's like having your leg amputated. You don't expect to like the result, but that's not the issue. You can't not do it for that reason.

Sampong

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Or the right to work in Paris, Berlin, Amsterdam or Brussels on comparable wages to the UK.

Or to retire in Spain. Or to go to University in Holland. Etc.

Millions of people use these rights... And I for one would have no interest in losing them.

If you're working in Paris, Berlin or Brussels then in all likelhood you're a skilled worker and don't need the EU freedom of movement to do so.

Likewise, we still recruited skilled people into the UK, including doctor's and nurses, well before the EU immigration floodates opened.

What we do have at the moment is a nass influx of unskilled workers, drug gangs, organised crime synicates, and human trafficking. Homeless ex-servicemen can't get into shelters because they are full of homeless migrants. It's an utter disaster, one that 10 years ago you would never have imagined a country like the UK that had it's infrastructure in place would descend into.

Yet you keep trying to convince us that it's a good thing with these "studies" you keep digging out.

chewmylegoff

A._Badger wrote: »

How commenters can suggest there is little wrong with the EU when it it riddled with wholesale corruption (to such an extent that the auditors consistently refuse to sign off its accounts), is responsible for the wasteful shambles that are the Common Fisheries Policy and the CAP and burdens us with endless rules and regulations over which we have little influence, boggles the mind.

What is this auto-immune disease that makes people have such little faith in their own country that they would rather it didn't even exist?

my view isn't that there is little wrong with the EU, only that exactly the same things afflict the EU as our own government, and you aren't fixing the problem by leaving the EU. (i feel the same way about e.g. scottish independence from the UK).