Cameron - tax avoidance morally wrong

Itismehonest

There are many forms of legal tax avoidance.
Who buys Duty Free or has an ISA? They're both legal forms of tax avoidance.

Should we consider all avoidance the same or does it only become immoral if someone's income goes over a certain amount?
If so, what should that amount be? I don't think that would work.

The Charity Tax loophole caused furore & has been shelved. Personally, I thought the idea of taking a percentage in tax before the donation was made could well have worked but, as with all things concerning our pockets, there seems to be differing views on who should pay what..... the only common theme being "As long as it's someone else paying & not me".
We're not going to find a way of making that formula work.

MDG

bankhater_1965 wrote: »

how can you possibly say that £100,000 salerie isnt well off wealthy or neither rich when the uk national average wage in 2011 was £26,200 ?? this a mere quarter of your £100.000

Because it isn't.

You would, as I state, just live a slightly better lifestyle, you're hardly going to be sunning yourself with the World's Elite in Monaco or the Bahamas are you?

You certainly wouldn't be paying £40,000 of your salary to help you avoid some tax would you?

The average salary is irrelevant, average PAYE earners haven't been found to be channelling money through offshore schemes have they?

kabayiri

It's interesting that all the focus is on Mr Carr.

There could be a good chance that he bought into this scheme without really understanding the fine detail, because of the advice he was given, by people he trusted on a financial front.

There is a pretty big industry out there providing these tax mitigation products, both to individual and corporations. Whilst this industry exists, they will always seek out new customers and develop new products (R&D some might call it).

I'm not really sure how you'd make reform to such an industry. They probably deal with every opinion maker and power broker in the land.

The_J

I advise people on these schemes for a living. Some of the stuff possible is unbelievable, I almost want to tell people on here to see them !!!! themselves in anger.

They are morally wrong. Legally right. What can you do? Who pays more tax than they have to?

You have to be earning pretty serious amounts to make it worthwhile, some of the fees can be as much as 50% of the tax saving.

Person above me is right, absolutely not a !!!!ing chance Carr knew what was going on. That's what I'm paid for, I take the input, tell them what the output is, if they are happy I get money. No-one cares about the process inbetween as long as it's legal.

Carr isn't a hypocrite, he is a comedian. Tells jokes...ie not serious? Geddit? Frankie Boyle is a raving left winger Palestinian sympathising save the world communist, you wouldn't guess that from his routine.

Graham_Devon

kabayiri wrote: »

It's interesting that all the focus is on Mr Carr.

There could be a good chance that he bought into this scheme without really understanding the fine detail, because of the advice he was given, by people he trusted on a financial front.

There is a pretty big industry out there providing these tax mitigation products, both to individual and corporations. Whilst this industry exists, they will always seek out new customers and develop new products (R&D some might call it).

I'm not really sure how you'd make reform to such an industry. They probably deal with every opinion maker and power broker in the land.

Isn't Jimmy Carr another champagne socilaist?

I like the guy (sometimes) but it does appear to be yet another do as I say not as I do situation.

kabayiri

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Isn't Jimmy Carr another champagne socilaist?

I like the guy (sometimes) but it does appear to be yet another do as I say not as I do situation.

You could say that his biggest failure was being at the top of the K2 club, with a name that is known.

What about all the other legal evaders in the K2 club, sat just behind Jimmy, grateful for the fact they don't make a living mocking Barclays.

The_J

Jimmy Carr makes jokes about topical subjects. Do you have to believe something to joke about it? If I tell a mother in law joke, do I have to hate her? Do I have to be racist to tell an Irish joke?

And he's not a socialist.

And he actually gives a lot of money to charity. Of course, it's tax efficient to do so but at least charities benefit.

FTBFun

The K-2 is a contrived avoidance scheme which looks like it is designed for employees rather than self-employed people like Jimmy Carr (entertainers are generally self-employed). This is how it works (nicked from the ITV website): http://www.itv.com/news/update/2012-06-20/how-the-k2-tax-avoidance-scheme-works/

• UK earners 'quit' their job
• They then sign new employment contracts with offshore shell companies
• The offshore companies 'rehire' their new employee to the UK but take their earnings
  The offshore company pays the employee a much lower salary each month, but 'loans' them several thousand pounds
• These loans can be written down as tax liabilities, thus substantially reducing tax payable to the Government

This is quite obviously designed for nothing more than paying very little tax, but is so astonishingly aggressive that I can't see it being recommended that often.

The firm that recommends them, "Peak Performance Accountants", doesn't actually appear to be an accountancy firm in the usual sense, but rather sells its schemes to other firms:
http://www.peakperformance.uk.com/accountancy/

Although given I haven't heard of a single accountancy practice in their testimonials, I'd take that with a pinch of salt.

FTBFun

homelessskilledworker wrote: »

I would love to see a database out there of money earned and tax paid. whether it is a footballer, rock star, movie star, businessman, London city boy, if you earn 1 million, you pay £250,000 as the norm.

If they do not pay this rough equation(say 20/25%) and end up paying well less then 10% and then come out with all this " Ehhh, Mmmm, well I used the law you know"
We will make our own judgements on the rights and wrongs of his avoidence, example I will turning the TV off now when I see Jimmy Carr, and will never watch him at another comedy Gig like I have done in the past.


I do not want to see the rich stuffed in the UK, I would actually like to see their top band reduced. But from the poorest to the richest, good and bad I want to see ALL pay their 20/25% tax

Actually someone on a £1 million loses 50% of their income in tax and NI.

The_J

Errr, it's really not designed for employed people, I think you may have been confused by "quit your job". That's just ITV trying to make it relevant to normal people.