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Cameron - tax avoidance morally wrong
LydiaJ
Posts: 8,083 Forumite
David Cameron has said that while tax management (putting money in ISAs & pensions etc) is fine, tax avoidance schemes that exploit loopholes in the tax law are morally wrong, although admittedly not illegal.
Video here.
If that's the case, where do you draw the line? Making yourself into a company and paying yourself dividends instead of a salary, so as not to pay NI? Making sure you spend enough days offshore not to be liable for domestic UK taxes?
Danny Alexander says tax avoidance is morally equivalent to benefit fraud. But where's the line there? Making sure you work exactly 16 hours/week to maximise the tax credits?
A challenge for everyone - how long can we keep this thread as a civilised debate before it descends into a slanging match? Please?
Video here.
If that's the case, where do you draw the line? Making yourself into a company and paying yourself dividends instead of a salary, so as not to pay NI? Making sure you spend enough days offshore not to be liable for domestic UK taxes?
Danny Alexander says tax avoidance is morally equivalent to benefit fraud. But where's the line there? Making sure you work exactly 16 hours/week to maximise the tax credits?
A challenge for everyone - how long can we keep this thread as a civilised debate before it descends into a slanging match? Please?
Do you know anyone who's bereaved? Point them to https://www.AtaLoss.org which does for bereavement support what MSE does for financial services, providing links to support organisations relevant to the circumstances of the loss & the local area. (Link permitted by forum team)
Tyre performance in the wet deteriorates rapidly below about 3mm tread - change yours when they get dangerous, not just when they are nearly illegal (1.6mm).
Oh, and wear your seatbelt. My kids are only alive because they were wearing theirs when somebody else was driving in wet weather with worn tyres.
Tyre performance in the wet deteriorates rapidly below about 3mm tread - change yours when they get dangerous, not just when they are nearly illegal (1.6mm).
Oh, and wear your seatbelt. My kids are only alive because they were wearing theirs when somebody else was driving in wet weather with worn tyres.
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Comments
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I'd like to think if I was earning over 100k I would think I have enough and not try to 'actively avoid' but I guess it is hard to say where 'actively' begins - isas? using the company car for personal journeys, paying dividends instead of income?
I sometimes wonder if those who would get most benefit from being comfortably off probably don;t have the motivation to earn enough whereas those for whom money is about 'keeping score' will never be satisfied however much they earn.I think....0 -
I really dont get this drama
If theres loopholes, and the government doesnt like people exploiting them, then close them, but all these methods used are available to everyone ,its not like celebrities are getting preferential treatment.
Its not like benefit fraud, benefit fraud requires lying and illegitamacy, tax avoidance is legal0 -
I'd like to think if I was earning over 100k I would think I have enough and not try to 'actively avoid' but I guess it is hard to say where 'actively' begins - isas? using the company car for personal journeys, paying dividends instead of income?
I sometimes wonder if those who would get most benefit from being comfortably off probably don;t have the motivation to earn enough whereas those for whom money is about 'keeping score' will never be satisfied however much they earn.
It also might depend on what otherdrains there were on your 100 k. Suppose, for example, you found yourself with a child with severe health problems who beneitted from lots of money spent on there care...every penny could still count.0 -
I think the argument becomes too polarised.
Both tax evasion & benefit fraud rob the Treasury & ultimately every law-abiding person in the country. Both mean there is less money in the kitty for those that are in real need.
It isn't a clear cut rich v. poor phenomena either.
It is often the same people who are willing to both avoid tax & commit benefit fraud as in the case recorded here.
http://blog.cps.gov.uk/2012/06/family-of-five-sentenced-for-tax-evasion-benefit-fraud.html
Hopefully, the law will catch up with more & more offenders whatever background they are from.
Tax avoidance is something rather more complicated because it is lawful but might require further legislation to close some of the loopholes.0 -
I really dont get this drama
If theres loopholes, and the government doesnt like people exploiting them, then close them, but all these methods used are available to everyone ,its not like celebrities are getting preferential treatment.
Its not like benefit fraud, benefit fraud requires lying and illegitamacy, tax avoidance is legal
Sometimes avoidance relies on 'creativity'. Philip greens wife's business interests might be an example.
Imo the system is too complicated which is the real problem wit loopholes...they become accessible not to all because of the complexity of the system.0 -
Are they available to everyone? Pretty tricky for most on paye to benefit from creative accounting and for most on lower incomes the cost of doing so is probably more than the amount that can be saved.I really dont get this drama
If theres loopholes, and the government doesnt like people exploiting them, then close them, but all these methods used are available to everyone ,its not like celebrities are getting preferential treatment.
Its not like benefit fraud, benefit fraud requires lying and illegitamacy, tax avoidance is legalI think....0 -
Hypocrite morally wrong Cameron
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/apr/20/cameron-family-tax-havens0 -
Are they available to everyone? Pretty tricky for most on paye to benefit from creative accounting and for most on lower incomes the cost of doing so is probably more than the amount that can be saved.
Yes of course it is, people can choose their career, they dont have to be an employee
Admittedly, rich people can affford the accountants to find them the loopholes, but thats because they can afford it. The reason they can afford it is usually due to going out and getting that money. Jimmy carr is the example thats been banded around. Anyone can be funny, he made a career out of it because he chose to0 -
Are they available to everyone? Pretty tricky for most on paye to benefit from creative accounting and for most on lower incomes the cost of doing so is probably more than the amount that can be saved.
I think this is the problem.
However, for the self-employed there has to be a valid way of off-setting various allowable costs & losses or we could get to the stage where only the mega-rich self-employed would have any "income" at all.0 -
Yes of course it is, people can choose their career, they dont have to be an employee
Admittedly, rich people can affford the accountants to find them the loopholes, but thats because they can afford it. The reason they can afford it is usually due to going out and getting that money. Jimmy carr is the example thats been banded around. Anyone can be funny, he made a career out of it because he chose to
I really want to know how to find one of these accountants, ours had us write a cheque to hmrc last year after dh's paye tax income. Loads we thought was legitamately offset able was not.0
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