American Immigrant here on Spousal Visa-Can my spouse claim additional housing benefi

enabledebra

Jumbo_Cod wrote: »

Am I right in thinking that this basically says that my spouse has the right to collect benefits (housing & council in this case) but by doing so it will have adverse effect by breaking the conditions of my visa? :O

Yes I'm afraid so. - I haven't read the whole thread but think there was something about your capital? Do you think that when income from capital (£1 per week for each £250 or part thereof over £6000 (a couples savings are combined)) is entered into the HB calculation your wife's entitlement will be reduced to the level it was before you moved in?

Jumbo_Cod

enabledebra wrote: »

Jumbo_Cod wrote: »

Yes I'm afraid so. - I haven't read the whole thread but think there was something about your capital? Do you think that when income from capital (£1 per week for each £250 or part thereof over £6000 (a couples savings are combined)) is entered into the HB calculation your wife's entitlement will be reduced to the level it was before you moved in?

Someone posted a link speaking about over £6,000 in savings from a government website dealing with housing & council tax benefits.

When you say income from capital do you mean earnings generated from investments (interest, stock dividends, etc?)

My savings don't generate much income at all. I know it doesn't matter in the eyes of benefits but I can't even access the bulk of them without substantial tax penalties from the US government.

Again when we went to declare my arrival in the household they asked for nothing. NO proof of income, nothing about savings, nothing about capital.

All they wanted was a copy of my passport and visa and changed my wife's name. They printed out a new benefit determination and that was the end of it. Then we went back a week later to question if what they did was accurate and were "reassured" that everything was OK!

enabledebra

Your capital and income is counted in the housing benefit assessment- they should have asked you about it.

What capital is counted is detailed in the link below. The total of the household's capital can affect entitlement in 2 ways- if it's value is over £16000 no HB can be paid. If it's under £16000, £6000 is ignored and the remainder is considered to generate £1 of income per week for each £250 of part thereof (so if your capital was valued at £6250 it would be £1 income and if £6251 it would be £2 income)http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/hbgm-bw1-assessment-of-capital.pdf

The way income is taken into account is also complex but in your circumstances (where there is already some HB payable) every £1 of income from capital would reduce the HB award by 65p.

just to clarfiy after re reading your post- the actual interest gained from capital is not the issue. The issue is the value of the capital as determined by the rules in the link. The income they assume from this value is calculated by the £250 etc rule above. This assumed income is what matters.

MissMoneypenny

Jumbo_Cod wrote: »

Again when we went to declare my arrival in the household they asked for nothing. NO proof of income, nothing about savings, nothing about capital.

Do your (you and your wife) capital and savings total over £6,000.00?

Do your (you and your wife) capital and savings total over £16,000.00?

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/publications/specialist-guides/technical-guidance/rr2-a-guide-to-housing-benefit/working-it-out/income-and-capital/
Working it out

Income and capital

The assessment of your HB/CTB entitlement takes into account any resources you may have. These resources can be split into income and capital. For customers receiving the Savings Credit of Pension Credit, The Pension Service will supply the council with a statement of income and capital. This will be called the Assessed Income Figure (AIF) and the council will use this figure when calculating entitlement to HB/CTB.

Income is all the money that you have coming in from earnings, social security benefits, maintenance payments and other sources. Depending on the type of income, it may be completely or partially ignored in the calculation of your HB/CTB (the disregards), or taken fully into account.

Capital means your savings, investments and the value of property and land owned but not occupied by you.

For the purposes of HB/CTB, certain important types of capital are ignored, such as personal possessions and your home. You will not get HB/CTB if your capital is worth more than £16,000 unless you are entitled to Guarantee Credit of Pension Credit.

princessdon

Capital includes lots of things

Home you own but don't live in
Savings, stocks, investments, cash, savings etc

It is not the "income generated" from them but the capital value they hold.

From the capital level the govt will generate an income. Eg £1 each week for every £250 of capital. They determine the income from the capital and it all needs declared.

BTW - If you are thinking it's crazy to assume £250 income from a £1K of cash - we would all agree, but we don't make the rules. DWP will assume this income from the capital level. I am not sure of "overseas" investments, but here in the UK if it is held in trust for say 5 years and you CAN access it (just pay a penalty) it's tough - pay the penalty. If for eg you CAN NEVER access till a point (pensions etc till 60), they leave alone till you reach the age

In the UK the test is whether it could be accessed and if that means selling a home they will treat as such even if unsold.

Jumbo_Cod

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

Do your (you and your wife) capital and savings total over £6,000.00?

Do your (you and your wife) capital and savings total over £16,000.00.

Yes we do when all things are added up regardless of accessibility.

Someone on another forum said we have to claim her housing/council benefit as if she was single. In other words report we are married, but only accept the benefit as if she was single. That doesn't sound very kosher.

More I read about this it seems that we can't claim anything more do to my inclusion in the household (fair enough)... but at the same time the government is completely fine denying as much benefit as possible by my inclusion of savings added to the household! LOL!

Jumbo_Cod

Interesting. In the book linked about capital from Missmoneypenny it says the following under the section concerning what can be disregarded in full:

xxii the value of the right to receive an occupational or personal pension
HB Sch 6 Para 31; CTB Sch 5 Para 31
xxiii the value of any funds held under a personal pension scheme or retirement annuity contract


wonder if a 401(k) counts as a "personal pension scheme." I would think it does...

enabledebra

yes, but the point is you cannot claim hb as if she was single- the HB rules don't allow that to happen when the reality is that you are a couple. Other benefits have rules that allow your income but not your needs will be taken into account to avoid the consequence of breaching immigration rules. HB don't- it is not 'kosher'.

I can't recall the policy intention of ignoring PSIC's from the needs side of the assement for some benefits despite including them in the 'means' side. What I do know is this means households who have very limited means are able to claim these benefits without breaching immigration rules so I'm grateful for the concessions. It would be good if HB worked the same way but it doesn't. Out of interest how does it work in the US?

MissMoneypenny

Jumbo_Cod wrote: »

Yes we do when all things are added up regardless of accessibility.

Over 16K?

Jumbo_Cod wrote: »

Someone on another forum said we have to claim her housing/council benefit as if she was single. In other words report we are married, but only accept the benefit as if she was single. That doesn't sound very kosher.

Sounds like benefit fraud to me.

Jumbo_Cod wrote: »

More I read about this it seems that we can't claim anything more do to my inclusion in the household (fair enough)... but at the same time the government is completely fine denying as much benefit as possible by my inclusion of savings added to the household! LOL!

Your earnings and savings/capital are included in the income for your wife's claim; but you have no recourse to public funds. This has been mentioned quite a few times on immigrationboards as not being fair, but that is how it works. Your wife is the claimant and she must advise all the the various benefit departments of any changes in circumstances.

It's a bit of a mess having all these benefits departments, but that will get sorted under the new welfare reform bill.

Just remember that staff who work in the various benefits departments are not immigration experts and it is up to the visa holder to ensure they comply with their visa - even if it is hard to find out what some of those conditions are!

There have been quite a few worried posts on immigrationboards where people have rushed to pay back their benefits before ILR, even though they told the various departments (usually HMRC) that they had no recourse to public funds. They thought that because they were still given these benefits after that, they they were allowed to have them on their visas.

MissMoneypenny

Jumbo_Cod wrote: »

wonder if a 401(k) counts as a "personal pension scheme." I would think it does...

When you applied for your visa and gave your savings total, did you include this as I thought you could only use money you could access?