American Immigrant here on Spousal Visa-Can my spouse claim additional housing benefi

MissMoneypenny

Jumbo_Cod wrote: »

We went in there and declared that I am now living in the household (as we told we were supposed to) and that was the end of it.

Did you tell your council's benefits section about your savings and any property and capital you have in the UK or abroad? I assume you had to show some savings to the UKBA to get your spouse visa? Have the council confirmed in writing that you have given them these details, so there is no denial of you ever telling them of this later on?

Jumbo_Cod wrote: »

I pulled out the paperwork. Specifically this is the major change. last month she was listed as:

"Lone Parent between 18 and Pension £70"

Now the new letter printed out on the spot after we went there states:

"Couple with Person between 18 and Pension £110"

Those are not benefit amounts but some figure for calculation, the actual total housing + council tax benefit went up from about £83 to £100, increase of £17 per week.

That £17 might be the difference between her claiming 25% discount for single occupancy for council tax, and now she has to pay the full 100% as you are there. You can't have your council tax paid by benefits as you have 'no recourse to public funds'.

This link is from the home office about what counts as public funds. Perhaps print it out and take it to your council's benefits office to show that you have to pay your own council tax because it is counted as a public fund; and you aren't allowed to claim that.
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/while-in-uk/rightsandresponsibilities/publicfunds/

Jumbo_Cod

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

Did you tell your council's benefits section about your savings and any property and capital you have in the UK or abroad? I assume you had to show some savings to the UKBA to get your spouse visa? Have the council confirmed in writing that you have given them these details, so there is no denial of you ever telling them of this later on?

I told them I had money and they said it wasn't necessary for calculations.

I did indeed had to show substantial savings to the UKBA for my visa to be granted, we wouldn't have gotten the visa otherwise based on her situation alone. The funds are all liquid and spread amongst several bank and brokerage accounts.

The council said the best they can do is they could send us a letter if we write them a letter demanding exactly what "type of verification we want." But we need to write the letter informing them that we need specific forms/letters from them.

BUT the catch is we don't even know what to ask for and the people at Town Hall don't either!! Their attitude is (and I quote) "If the Home Office has any problem they'll notify you."

umm.. no thanks, we'd rather avoid that and know for sure!

It's completely ridiculous, we're regretting ever going in the first place! Now I'm hearing from another forum that we should have never declared my status and her change in circumstances at all--that she should have just stayed "single" in the eyes of the Housing & Council Tax benefits. But that would be lying, we always assumed the amount would go down and it was the right thing to do to report me arriving in The UK!!

princessdon

You are being honest and for that I applaud you BUT if you have more than £6000 in savings then housing benefit and council tax benefit is reduced. If you have £16000 it stops (that is the cut offf).

As you declared your savings then they will at some point (they are not the quickest but get there in the end), ask for this back. She needs to inform the HB and CT people of the savings. If you then get it in writing that it is "fine" and they continue to pay then this is far better than her being accused of fraud and having the investigations.

When she took those benefits she declared the HOUSEHOLD income and savings and is to inform them of any changes at the earliest possbility.

It is your partners responsbility to notify of any changes.

Jumbo_Cod

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

That £17 might be the difference between her claiming 25% discount for single occupancy for council tax, and now she has to pay the full 100% as you are there. You can't have your council tax paid by benefits as you have 'no recourse to public funds'.
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/while-in-uk/rightsandresponsibilities/publicfunds/

We are now getting £17 MORE now that I am here...as we're now a couple. I would think it should be less we were shocked but I didn't think of this stuff until we got home!

The big issue is who has recourse to public funds, and what exactly is a public fund, and what's applicable in the situation of an immigrant settling with a citizen who is entitled with public funds.

While I am not entitled to 'public funds,' she is as a citizen by birth ,and the guy at the council kept drilling that into us that no matter what, she's entitled to get whatever is entitled, despite my immigration status.

Yet the UKBA states that as a sponsor to my visa, she's not entitled to anything that would cause her claim to public funds to increase!!

I have looked at that link you provided (Thanks!) but the problem is that they just say that there's discretion in what's considered public funds and if you have any question contact DWP or HMRC

Jumbo_Cod

princessdon wrote: »

You are being honest and for that I applaud you BUT if you have more than £6000 in savings then housing benefit and council tax benefit is reduced. If you have £16000 it stops (that is the cut offf).

As you declared your savings then they will at some point (they are not the quickest but get there in the end), ask for this back. She needs to inform the HB and CT people of the savings. If you then get it in writing that it is "fine" and they continue to pay then this is far better than her being accused of fraud and having the investigations.

When she took those benefits she declared the HOUSEHOLD income and savings and is to inform them of any changes at the earliest possbility.

It is your partners responsbility to notify of any changes.

Whatever the outcome we anticipate having this sorted within a month so that's not a worry.

Where do you get those figures from? Could you please provide a link?

I'm still shocked that they would never ask us to declare any savings or income or...well ANYTHING!

Cheers,

JC

princessdon

Links to Council Tax

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/BenefitsTaxCreditsAndOtherSupport/On_a_low_income/DG_10018923

The same site will give info re Housing benefit.

Under 6K it has NO impact - but needs to be delcared anyway, over this it reduces per each 1K, the cut off is £16K

They DID ask your partner Re this (when she claimed, before you were living there), she needs to update her circumstances now you are here with them.

Jumbo_Cod

princessdon wrote: »

Links to Council Tax

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/BenefitsTaxCreditsAndOtherSupport/On_a_low_income/DG_10018923

The same site will give info re Housing benefit.

Under 6K it has NO impact - but needs to be delcared anyway, over this it reduces per each 1K, the cut off is £16K

They DID ask your partner Re this (when she claimed, before you were living there), she needs to update her circumstances now you are here with them.

Thank you for the link, much appreciated.

The point I'm making is we went to Town Hall (to declare a change in circumstance) and the guy said it didn't matter! To paraphrase he said along the lines of "it doesn't matter the status of your partner we have to give you whatever you're entitled to as a couple!"

My wife and I were talking about this matter this morning, she has always declared everything truthfully. Of course they asked her before hand but she's never been married whilst claiming benefits. And they didn't take what we said into consideration last Monday..

(in fact she said they even asked about her childrens' savings in the past. I'm getting the impression there's a big difference between what's on the paper form vs. what happens when you go in person. We thought doing it in person would be the best way... it's looking like it's not!)

Either way we're making an appointment with CAB to speak with a benefits expert, it seems to be our best and last option.

enabledebra

The Housing benefit rules do allow your wife to receive more benefit if the household means test with you now part of it throws out a higher entitlement. That's perfectly fine under the benefit regulations. But the immigration rules state that an increase in entitlement due to your presence may be a breach of your condition not to have recourse to public funds. Other benefits/tax credits have a way round this problem when a couple have mixed status - but Housing Benefit doesn't.


http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/policyandlaw/immigrationlaw/immigrationrules/introduction/
http://onlineservices.cpag.org.uk/sites/default/files/CPAG_BFMH_5e_samplechapter.pdf

Jumbo_Cod

enabledebra wrote: »

The Housing benefit rules do allow your wife to receive more benefit if the household means test with you now part of it throws out a higher entitlement. That's perfectly fine under the benefit regulations. But the immigration rules state that an increase in entitlement due to your presence may be a breach of your condition not to have recourse to public funds. Other benefits/tax credits have a way round this problem when a couple have mixed status - but Housing Benefit doesn't.


http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/policyandlaw/immigrationlaw/immigrationrules/introduction/
http://onlineservices.cpag.org.uk/sites/default/files/CPAG_BFMH_5e_samplechapter.pdf

Thank you very much for that link to the PDF! Most helpful advice yet

OK more confusing things..(from the link):

It is the fact that you (or s/he) are a ‘person subject to immigration control’
that generally prevents you from getting benefits under benefit law. However,
you (or your family member) may still be able to claim benefits under the
exceptions to these rules discussed on p60, or someone may be able to claim an
increase in benefits in respect of you under the rules about family members with
different immigration statuses. If you (or a family member) claim under these
rules, however, you may break the conditions under which you (or s/he) were
given leave to enter or remain in the UK – eg, by having recourse to public funds.


Am I right in thinking that this basically says that my spouse has the right to collect benefits (housing & council in this case) but by doing so it will have adverse effect by breaking the conditions of my visa? :O

This so far confirms our fears of the two departments having ZERO communication with each other!!

Jumbo_Cod

More from the booklet from the link from enabledebra:

"A major consideration is often whether or not a claim will jeopardise the immigration position of the partner who wishes to settle in the United Kingdom"

And..

" income-related employment and support allowance (ESA)andincome-based jobseeker’s allowance (JSA) rules all allow a couple with ‘mixed’ immigration statuses to claim benefit at the single person’s rate (see below). However, the couple is still treated as a couple and any income or capital available to the ‘person
subject to immigration control’ (see p55) will impact on the benefit entitlement of the other member of the couple."

Sounds like to me as previously mentioned on this thread that both of our financials are calculated into the entitlement of my wife. Even though they say before that she is entitled to benefits at the single rate. Huh???

AND THE KICKER:

"Housing benefit and council tax benefit
If one partner in a couple is not a ‘person subject to immigration control’, that person can claim full benefit. However, there is no provision to pay benefit at a single person’s rate. Housing benefit and council tax benefit are both paid at the couple rate. This may be a potential problem for the partner who is a ‘person
subject to immigration control’ as it is possible there could be recourse to public funds (see p11) if a claim is made (see p63)."


Well YES. That's exactly what we're wondering and is our issue...as of last week we're getting housing benefit at a couple rate, and it might be a potential problem for the partner who is a 'person subject to immigration control' (me). Love how the booklet gives an amazingly vague brush-over this issue...we can't be the only ones!