UKCPS £100 fine for parking outside the white line!

DeepInDebt

Thanks for the advice. I looked at the ukpc website and on it they have case reference no.s and names.of people they claim to have taken to court and won meaning the victim had to pay the costs averaging at a total of around 350 per ticker. Are these made up? Do they actually take people to court?

dispossessed

To those that understand Law & Computer Science (few and far between but they do exist) digital "evidence" in isolation is very weak evidence at best. How many people have never heard of Adobe Photoshop to name but one piece of image manipulation software.

The principle that underpins obtaining any conviction is evidence integrity. In our legal system Barristers and Solicitors spend a good deal of their time examining and questioning integrity - both of evidence (tangiable and otherwise) and witness' (notoriously unreliable in all measured tests).

Ask UKPC for copies of their "chain of custody" records and the "MD5 Hash" of the photograph(s) in question.

Any reputable firm should be happy to provide both.

In the absence of anything to underpin the integrity of their evidence it is highly unlikely it would withstand scrutiny in Court.

There are precedents - sadly only of the so called "persuasive" variety.

That is quite before one begins on the process of examing the witness (UKPC's staff - i.e. the Parking Inspector) concerned.

IMHO many of these companies work on the basis that most people have not had the benefit of legal training and, therefore, are unlikely to challenge any evidence. Hence they pay up !

"Accept nothing, challenge everything and examine each and every avenue of possibilty".

Hope this is of some intetest and possible help to you.

Legal disclaimer - this advice is not intended to replace a lawyer etc.

vax2002

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Well done on your 4th fake PCN...I only have two so you are beating me!

.

I have a file full, at least 30 parking eye, a dozen or so ukpao, but they refuse to write me any now, even banging on the parrot faced goons fiesta window does not get me one!
A few other random ones, two threatening railway bylaws, also ignored and one from NCP.

Free parking rocks ! :T

Coupon-mad

DeepInDebt wrote: »

Thanks for the advice. I looked at the ukpc website and on it they have case reference no.s and names.of people they claim to have taken to court and won meaning the victim had to pay the costs averaging at a total of around 350 per ticker. Are these made up? Do they actually take people to court?

UKPC do not do Court except for when Trading Standars took them there last year (Google 'UKPC indicted' to read about it - a reasonable attempt by TS but the mud didn't stick enough).

UKPC website just mentions the Stephen Thomas case - which was not them - I couldn't see case refs and if there are some then I suggest they have made them up. Can you reply with a broken link to the page you were looking at (just remove the http:// if you can't post links yet).

It did make me laugh when I read this illiterate drivel:

''At UKPC we believe that one of its most important and primary functions, is to rigorously comply with the Government Disability Discriminations Act and/or British Parking Associations requirements and legislations. This includes adhering to any published codes of practise and the training and development of all employees to ensure these standards are consistently met.''

Apart from the fact they have cited the wrong law, I am not going to point out all the typos and grammar errors in that single paragraph. UKPC could at least TRY to make their website look professional!

:rotfl:

dispossessed

DeepInDebt wrote: »

Thanks for the advice. I looked at the ukpc website and on it they have case reference no.s and names.of people they claim to have taken to court and won meaning the victim had to pay the costs averaging at a total of around 350 per ticker. Are these made up? Do they actually take people to court?

They are hardly likely to publish the details of those cases where they were taken before a Court and lost !

Who wins and who loses has very little to do with concepts such as "right and wrong" and "Justice" and far more to do with who presents the more convincing argument. That is the nature of the adversarial system.

The most successful advocates are not neccessarily those who are the greatest legal knowledge but simply those who best know how to destroy credibility.

Stephen_Leak

DeepInDebt wrote: »

Thanks for the advice. I looked at the ukpc website and on it they have case reference no.s and names.of people they claim to have taken to court and won meaning the victim had to pay the costs averaging at a total of around 350 per ticker. Are these made up? Do they actually take people to court?

Yes. Their last one was UKCPS vs. Murphy, Burnley, 2012. The judge ruled that the PPC’s demands were unreasonable, were therefore an unlawful contractual penalty and found in favour of the driver.

Some PPCs have won court cases, but only under exceptional circumstances. When their letters are returned undelivered, they know that they can take the person to court, safe in the knowledge that the court’s letters will probably also be returned and the person won’t be in court to defend themselves. They then win by default. They then claim these as victories.

However, everything changed with VCS Parking Control vs. Ronald Ibbotson, S!!!!horpe, 2012 and VCS Parking Control vs. HM Revenue & Customs, Upper Tax Tribunal, 2012. In both cases, the judges found that only the car park owner can take drivers to court. The Upper Tax Tribunal is a court of record, equivalent to the High Court, and therefore its judgement sets a legal precedent.

dispossessed

Stephen_Leak wrote: »

Yes. Their last one was UKCPS vs. Murphy, Burnley, 2012. The judge ruled that the PPC’s demands were unreasonable, were therefore an unlawful contractual penalty and found in favour of the driver.

Some PPCs have won court cases, but only under exceptional circumstances. When their letters are returned undelivered, they know that they can take the person to court, safe in the knowledge that the court’s letters will probably also be returned and the person won’t be in court to defend themselves. They then win by default. They then claim these as victories.

However, everything changed with VCS Parking Control vs. Ronald Ibbotson, S!!!!horpe, 2012 and VCS Parking Control vs. HM Revenue & Customs, Upper Tax Tribunal, 2012. In both cases, the judges found that only the car park owner can take drivers to court. The Upper Tax Tribunal is a court of record, equivalent to the High Court, and therefore its judgement sets a legal precedent.

The latter judgement is available here (as a downloadable PDF) if the original poster (or anyone else) wishes to read it. It is the 15th case from the top of the page.

Coupon-mad

But that's a different company.

UKPC don't do Court.

UKCPS occasionally try.

esmerobbo

UKPC supposed claims are also claimed by other companies, and strangely all the claims listed are from Manchester county court!

They are more likely to be DRP's and are nothing to do with PCN's, but real debt claims!

Especially as the case they quote as a "precedent" is the CPS V Thomas. Why would they not quote one of their own?

Stephen_Leak

Coupon-mad wrote: »

But that's a different company.

UKPC don't do Court.

UKCPS occasionally try.

D'oh! :doh:

I was going from the thread title.