Parking ticket on private carpark

KAJL

Hi all,

I would love a bit of advice on a parking fine I received from Armtrac on a carpark owned by a local tourist attraction near to where I live.

I purchased a ticket for a 2/3 hour stay as this carpark, paying £2.20 at the machine. However, I failed to notice that the 20p had either not registered in the machine or had fallen straight through (I had 4 children with me and was slightly preoccupied with them). Therefore I put the ticket in my car and went on my way. Unbeknown to me, I had only displayed a ticket showing a payment for £2.00 and therefore had only paid for a 1 hour stay (a 1 hour stay would have only cost £1.00).

On my return (1 hour and 16 mins later) I had been given a parking ticket for £80.

I wrote to Armtrac saying that the fine was unfair, as it obvious that I had tried to pay £2.20 for a 2/3 hour stay; why would I have put £2 in the machine for a 1 hour stay (paying double the required amount for that timeframe).

I have written to Armtrac 3 times. They have replied, at first saying that I must pay the fine and they rejected my appeal. Then they said that they would reduce the fine to £40 as a gesture of goodwill, if I replied within a certain time; I didnt. They also later wrote and said that I had told them that my ticket was in the footwell of the car; I did not say this and they have now backtracked on that.

As we stand, they are now saying that I have a few days to pay-up the £80 fine or they will refer the case to a debt recovery agent.

I really want to dig my heels in on this; as I said before, I honestly and genuinly thought I had paid the full fee of £2.20 and think that is more than reasonable to assume this; my ticket showed I had paid £2.00, why would I pay £2 when a 1 hour stay would have been £1.00.

They also changed a part of the ticket showing the ‘time noticed’. It was scribbled out and written over making it unclear. I understand that parking tickets should be legible and totally clear?

In addition to this, and this is looking from a reasonable person’s standpoint, I only stayed 16 minutes over the 1 hour period, therefore, having paid £2.00, I actually paid more than enough for the period of time I was in the car park!

The signage in the carpark does state that you should check your ticket (Armtrac have kindly sent me a few trees worth of photographic evidence), but in real life, with 4 children in tow, who on earth does this?

I would really appreciate some advice on where I should go from here. In understand that a debt recovery agent has different powers to bailiffs but surely they would have to take me to court before debt recovery agents get involved?

Many thanks

give_them_FA

Don't pay. Like all private parking tickets this is completely unenforcible.

Simply ignore! Their so-called "debt recovery agents" have zero powers. It is all a scam.

Stephen_Leak

Firstly, the legal stuff.

Only councils, the police, train operators and Transport for London can impose legally enforceable fines or penalties. A private parking company (PPC) or an individual can't. Even PPCs call their tickets “Parking Charge Notices”, not “Penalty Charge Notices”. In law, they’re called “speculative invoices”.

Any warning signs are usually so badly positioned and worded, that they won’t have created a fair and legally binding deemed contract between the car park owner and a driver entering the car park in the first place. See The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997 and Excel Parking Services vs. Cutts, Stockport, 2011, 1SE02759, the Peel Centre case.

All the car park owner (CPO) can claim from a driver in damages for any breach of contract is what they’ve lost as a result. If this is a free car park or they paid, this is £0.00. Demanding more has been judged to be unreasonable and therefore an unfair contract penalty under the terms of The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997, which is not legally enforceable. See Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co. Ltd. vs. New Garage & Motor Co. Ltd., House of Lords, 1914 and countless cases since.

Even though you’ve written and told them who the driver was, it doesn’t make their actions any less unlawful. It just means that instead of harassing the registered keeper, they can now harass the driver.

What will they do to me?

The PPC, then a debt collector and then a solicitor will send you a series of letters. The debt collector and solicitor are usually also the PPC, but using different headed paper. These letters will threaten you with every kind of financial and legal unpleasantness imaginable, to intimidate you into paying.

But, they can't actually do anything, for the same reason that a Nigerian e-mail scammer couldn't sue anyone who didn’t pay them.

What should I do then?

Continue to ignore everything you get from the PPC and their aliases. It does seem counter-intuitive to deal with something by ignoring it. Eventually, they will run out of empty threats, and stop throwing good money after bad.

Half_way

I purchased a ticket for a 2/3 hour stay as this carpark, paying £2.20 at the machine. However, I failed to notice that the 20p had either not registered in the machine or had fallen straight through

The most that you owe is the 20p, and if you want to play it straight you should offer them this amount as a full and fianl settlement.

KAJL

Thanks for the advice Half_way; I did send them a 20p attached to one of my letters, but they sent it back!

I read something online last night saying exactly what Stephen Leak suggests, in that, all they can claim are damages. Apparently they will come back and say that I have to pay for the parking attendants time but of course this is nonsense as the attendant would have been there anyway.

I am so incensed by their attitude. If I hadn't bought a ticket I would hold my hands up and pay up but it is so obvious that I made an honest mistake and did in fact over pay for the time I stayed in the parking space. £2 for a 1hour 16 min stay was an overpayment of around 45p. Maybe I should send them an invoice? :rotfl:

give_them_FA

You are making the classic mistake that honest folk make when dealing with a parking company. You are assuming that they are an honest and reputable outfit.

They are not. Of course they are not going to listen to a word you say because they will not collect the money off you if they did.

You offered them all you really owed them and they chose not to accept it. Do not waste any more time or effort on them. There is absolutely nothing they can do if you simply ignore them from here on in. You may get some pathetic threatening letters but when it becomes plain to them that they have not succeeded in conning you they will cut their losses and go away, never to return.

Half_way

You could try and offer the 20p again as a full And final settlement, also copy the car park owner into all of this, and inform both the car parking company and the car park owner that you are minded top put a.claim on against them both for harassment of they continue to send threatening letters.

dwill

Hi everyone.

Some weeks ago I did the horrible deed of dropping a friend at the airport and picking them up on return. I waited close to the airport and they rang me when they were through customs whereupon I drove into the airport site pulled over and picked them up... I should think 45 seconds in total. I have received a letter from the Airport parking company APCOA demanding £100 for "picking up in a non stopping zone" They claim I have "breached the terms and conditions of use of the airport road" for which signs were clearly displayed. I am not sure how I was supposed to read these without stopping but hey whatever? Do they have a case or is this just my daily rip off I have come to expect in Britain 2012?
Regards

The_Slithy_Tove

dwill wrote: »

Do they have a case

None, whatsoever. They are a private company attempting to levy a penalty on you. They cannot do this. If they were to try it on in court, they would get nowhere. For a start, as you state, how are you supposed to read, understand and agree to their so-called contract as you drive past the board of rather small text. And that's just one thing in their way of being able to enforce their charges.

KAJL

Hi Half_way, I copied the carpark owner into my second letter but they replied saying they couldn't get involved. I might try offering the 20p again or may just completely ignore them from here on in, if I can hold my nerve!!

Our solicitor is a personal friend and I wonder if I should ask him to send a letter telling them to take a hike?

The_Slithy_Tove

KAJL wrote: »

Our solicitor is a personal friend and I wonder if I should ask him to send a letter telling them to take a hike?

You're taking this way too seriously. Just ignore them completely. If you have offered to pay their actual losses, you have already done more than enough. If you really want your solicitor friend to do anything, he could start proceedings for harrassment.