EBay Final Value Fee Increase Private Sellers

RFW

soolin wrote: »

I have no idea why anyone would think it is illegal?

If it was ilegal then every merchant card company is in breach as they charge retailers a fee for the whole transaction as well, including postage where applicable.

Also HMRC take VAT on postage too, so maybe call the cops on them too;)

Crowqueen

People want it to be illegal because then they can feel themselves on much surer ground than just saying 'I don't like it'.

In reality, if it were illegal, then most if not all services which require payment of fees would also be illegal. Listing a book on Amazon the other day to try it out, I sell it for 50p + 2.80, so price to the consumer is 3.30. Amazon take a flat fee plus a % of the total (including the postage credit they give me). So I get something like 1.86, out of which I will have to pay perhaps 1.20 postage and 14p for a padded envelope. Which means I get 52p net.

That's got to be illegal...nope, I'm simply paying for Amazon's exposure and them handling the money for me, which is expensive but perhaps worth it because I may, at some point in the future, actually sell the book. I've signed up mainly because I want to float a bit of my fiction on the Kindle, rather than to actually sell books, but I wanted to see how it worked.

The thing is, people think that what they ask for their items is what they will get. By the time they have paid for the advertising, paid for the server space, paid for the money handling, paid for postage etc. the net payment is still actually worth it because if they weren't paying for all that they would get nothing because they wouldn't be able to advertise the item or handle an electronic payment.

If they were doing this full time as an actual business they'd simply call that 'overhead' and move on - but because they are not used to this way of doing business, they call it 'greedy' and 'illegal' because they think that private sellers should be able to piggy back on the people paying for this - either eBay themselves or the business sellers/outlets etc.

Somehow, because the companies involved don't do this absolutely totally for free, it becomes highly illegal and if not, positively greedy.

My theory is this: eBay are preparing to go free listing for private sellers, up to a certain point. The constant FLWs are testing the waters to make it as restrictive as possible - no bulk tools, no below-standard sellers, limited numbers of free listings etc. The US site has already done this.

eBay thus need to recoup some of the money from the people who either cause the most problems (s/h clothing must put a lot of strain on CS, hence the recent rise in fees in that category) or the few people who list items above a certain threshold, who will be subsidising the many more people who have items that they can list and sell at much lower prices.

Paypal are, as ever, a completely separate company; eBay may cross-subsidise them but they provide a separate service from a separate group of people (just like the Sun and the Times may be owned by the same people but operate very different editorial policies). eBay would be difficult to run nowadays without some form of established electronic payment system, but don't want to take on that burden themselves, so they have an agreement with a sister company. However, were they to take payment systems in-house, as Amazon have done, the FVFs would have to increase to compensate.

But perhaps rather than think through all that, and come to a reasoned conclusion, it's easier to say 'it's illegal!' and feel superior in the knowledge that you despise the service you otherwise so happily are using because you're not simply given everything completely for free.

TechBaje

soolin wrote: »

A private seller though is not likely to have more than one phone a year to sell even if they sell every contract phone they get on renewal. A business based on tech would have large quantities.

As for discounts, business sellers only get discounts if they can achieve TRS status and even then the discounts are not huge, they start at 10% of FVfs, so on a FVF of £5 they would get a whole 50p bck

To me, you're basing this opinion on your own eBay activities. However, there are some people who love gadgets and who may tend to buy multiple gadgets per year that may be over £400. Instead of hoarding them, sometimes, they just sell them after a few months and buy the next new gadget.

Even if a person isn't like that and decides to sell their iPhone, for example, because a new model came out this year, the item might actually have a market value of over £400. Let's say it's a 64GB model; they may be able to sell it for £500. This means they'll be paying £50 in eBay fees alone plus the PayPal fees. Sure, while some business sellers may be happy about that, what private seller will be happy about that, even if they only sell something that expensive once a year?

I, for example, often have tech goods such as MacBook Pros, laptops or phones that I may have owned for 6 months and then either upgraded or just changed, sometimes because I have different personal projects that might call for me to buy something more suited for the purpose. I typically try to recover what I paid or take a small loss, which is acceptable based on the item & the usage I got out of it. Most of these items are over £500.

What private sellers (not those hiding a business under the private seller umbrella) may need to do is start to look at whatever alternatives to eBay are out there because, at some point, eBay's fees will reach the point where it's simply not feasible to sell on eBay any longer. Otherwise, items for sale on eBay will eventually become too expensive to make it a practical place to look for bargains. Already, there are times I check eBay first then end up buying from Amazon or even directly from the manufacturer or distributor, because the same item costs more on eBay.

Money is money! When you're losing it, it doesn't matter whether it's once a year or once a day!

RFW

TechBaje wrote: »

I, for example, often have tech goods such as MacBook Pros, laptops or phones that I may have owned for 6 months and then either upgraded or just changed, sometimes because I have different personal projects that might call for me to buy something more suited for the purpose. I typically try to recover what I paid or take a small loss, which is acceptable based on the item & the usage I got out of it. Most of these items are over £500.

What private sellers (not those hiding a business under the private seller umbrella) may need to do is start to look at whatever alternatives to eBay are out there because, at some point, eBay's fees will reach the point where it's simply not feasible to sell on eBay any longer. Otherwise, items for sale on eBay will eventually become too expensive to make it a practical place to look for bargains. Already, there are times I check eBay first then end up buying from Amazon or even directly from the manufacturer or distributor, because the same item costs more on eBay.

Money is money! When you're losing it, it doesn't matter whether it's once a year or once a day!

I can't see an overwhelming amount of sympathy pouring out for people who buy £500+ gadgets regularly and only hang onto them for 6 months.

I'm surprised Ebay held onto that cap for so long, auction houses don't have one, nor does Amazon.

There are always going to be items cheaper on Ebay and some that aren't, I wouldn't buy a laptop on Ebay, but know many people who would and do regularly.

soolin

TechBaje wrote: »

To



What private sellers (not those hiding a business under the private seller umbrella) may need to do is start to look at whatever alternatives to eBay are out there because, at some point, eBay's fees will reach the point where it's simply not feasible to sell on eBay any longer. Otherwise, items for sale on eBay will eventually become too expensive to make it a practical place to look for bargains. Already, there are times I check eBay first then end up buying from Amazon or even directly from the manufacturer or distributor, because the same item costs more on eBay.

Money is money! When you're losing it, it doesn't matter whether it's once a year or once a day!

I can't see how you are 'losing' money though, if you weren't using ebay you would be stuck with a lot of expensive gadgets that devauled a bit every single week you left them.

Also since you say places like Amazon are cheaper- you rather support my opinion that sellers get what they pay for on ebay as for a seller surely the best place to sell would be the one where you get the best net proceeds?

By all means use places like Amazon for your goods, but of course you'll get less money as the fees are higher and as you say, the prices are lower.

I buy wherever it is cheaper, but I sell where my stuff goes for the best price, and currently for me that is ebay.