Registering an unregistered electricity supply

catnipmatador

We moved into our flat 5 years ago and didn't appear to be getting electricity bills. We called EDF to tell them, only to have them say that there was only one meter registered to the property. I described the meter to them including the serial number and they did not recognise it.

The likeliest thing, they said, was that there was only one electricity supply to the building (two flats in a converted victorian house). The one downstairs in our neighbour's flat was real and ours was a "landlord meter". Both flats had been rented previously and, presumably, the bills were thrown in and the landlord only wanted the second meter for his reference.

We tried to get them to come out and confirm it but they wouldn't because the registered meter was in the neighbour's flat and so they couldn't deal with us. The neighbour, who was lovely but not great at this sort of thing showed no real zeal for getting it sorted so we came to an informal arrangement where we didn't charge him ground rent and certain bits of the service charge. Not brilliant but there you are. We let it drift. Every so often we'd call EDF or networks but they showed no interest.

Fast forward several years, the neighbour moves out and the new neighbours are keen to get matters sorted. So we finally get an electrician to look at the set up. Their verdict? The meter in our flat is a real meter but it is unregistered. She then pulls out the anti-tampering wire - which turns out not to be attached - "it's not uncommon" she says. Basically, when the house was split into flats 15 years ago, no planning permission was sought and the developers clearly had a few other bad habits.

So, I now want to get the matter straightened out with the electricity people but, given that they were no help at all in discovering their own loss and given that I have let the old neighbour off hundreds of pounds in the belief that he was paying my bill over the years, I am a bit wary of the possibility that the electricity company might seek to nail me for five years of "estimated" back bills as a reward for my honesty.

The Energy Retailers Association's Code of Practice for Back Bills suggests that they won't try to make arrears charges for periods greater than one year where the utility was at fault but I don't know where that leaves me.

On the utility's side, they are not exactly at fault for having someone put in a pirate supply, I didn't exactly move heaven and earth to get the neighbour to focus on the problem and I have been aware of something being awry for some time.

In my defence, the energy company never even mentioned the possibility that my meter might not be a legitimate one and always gave me the impression that this was a matter between me and my neighbour. I even gave them the serial number of the meter and described it in some detail. If the problem is actually as common as my electrician said then a telephone operator who knew what they were doing would surely have spotted the possibility that a London Electric meter with an unregistered serial number might be a hooky supply. But, of course, these conversations go back years and they were on the telephone with completely useless people in completely different departmets at both EDF and Networks. I can't prove any of this.

My best guess is to argue that it is precisely for this reason that the code introduced the one year cap but if the utility were minded to make a nuisance of themselves...

Anyway, if anyone has any relevant experience of unregistered supplies in particular or advice on where I satnd legally, I'd be very keen to hear it.

Thanks.

chanz4

Backbill policy would not apply as it would be distrubution that bills you for theft, now to sort it you need to contact your local distrubution and inform them of the ilegal supply.

Terrylw1

The first thing to consider is whether you caused it. If they can't prove you committed the offence, then how can you be charged?

If the meter is real, how did the sparky know? Many of the meters that are attached by contracted Meter Operators can be purchased online. How did she know? What was it connected to?

In terms of back billing, aside from that distribution tamper consideration, the supplier can't back bill...and in the case of a supply with no registration, the supplier cannot legally bill until the 1st registered date. This is because they themselves only get billed from this date.

Can you provide more info on how the sparky knew as this isn't fully clear at this time. If that was wired to the other main meter, it could be a sub meter that was set up by the Meter Operator if the meter in the other flat is 3 phase...a stupid set up, but seen it before.

Richie-from-the-Boro

Copied from & pasted from elsewhere - posted by catnipmatador @ 7:33 PM in the wrong thread, reposted here because catnipmatador may not know what s/he has done wrong :

Thanks for your help. I'll try to clarify a bit more if I can. The electrician did not know for sure that it was an illegal supply but she said she thought it likely. This was because, although the meter looked to be a real model with the old London Electric logo on it and a serial number and so on, EDF don't recognise the serial number on the two occasions I have read it to them. Also, there was a little wire hanging out of the meter which looked as though it was some sort of anti-tampering tag but when we tweaked it, it turned out not to be attached to anything.

The electrician has checked the wiring and has confirmed that it isn't a sub meter because it comes directly off the single phase supply presumably through an appropriate board.

So we haven't done anything wrong but the landlord who bought the house and from whom I bought the place five years ago may well have done. But then again, the utility isn't actually at fault either, except inasmuch as they gave me misleading advice when I first raised the matter with them. As I say, I have tried to sort things out in good faith but perhaps not as diligently as I might have done. I'm still keen to get things sorted but the possibility of being hit with 5 years estimated back bills is a pretty strong incentive to keep mum. Especially since all my lighting is low energy and Until recently, I owned very few electrical appliances - so an estimated bill based on average consumption would be grossly unfair.

[Deleted User]

no seal on the meter is very common. Not much is done about it if I report it, if the seal has been cut and placed back as if intact it, is a good sign of a bypass in the past

Terrylw1

By EDF, do you mean supplier though?

Suppliers can only see the meters they have customers for.

So, if another supplier has it, EDF can't see it.

Have you contacted the distribution MPAS? They get the meter details sent to them so they can trace it and see which MPAN it is connected to. Also, they can see all properties in their region unlike suppliers so can see what they have in your street to see if there is a property with an address problem.

You can't be back billed beyond a year if there have been no energy bills produced at all, Ofgem won't allow this on domestics. If you had been billed but not correctly, it becomes more open to dispute as Ofgem's code isn't relevant and the billing code cones into play...which has clauses about the customers conduct e.g. have they withheld, not notified or prevented billing in some way.

If the sparky said it was connected to the mains, but no one can find the meter...it can be a record issue. The most important thing to establish is that the distributor has your address on their system with a connected MPAN. If so, the meter is incorrectly set up in supplier/agent systems and it can be sorted. If the distributor cannot find you, no one ever created a MPAN and registered you. This latter scenario means they can only bill you from the point of registration and not even for the last 12 months.

chanz4

Terrylw1 wrote: »

The first thing to consider is whether you caused it. If they can't prove you committed the offence, then how can you be charged?

If the meter is real, how did the sparky know? Many of the meters that are attached by contracted Meter Operators can be purchased online. How did she know? What was it connected to?

In terms of back billing, aside from that distribution tamper consideration, the supplier can't back bill...and in the case of a supply with no registration, the supplier cannot legally bill until the 1st registered date. This is because they themselves only get billed from this date.

Can you provide more info on how the sparky knew as this isn't fully clear at this time. If that was wired to the other main meter, it could be a sub meter that was set up by the Meter Operator if the meter in the other flat is 3 phase...a stupid set up, but seen it before.

90% disagree, although they cant be charged for the admin or new meter the op has benfited from electricity which has been taken from the grid via an ilegal connection done by a third party and is liable. The back billing policy does not apply to this as distrubution are not signed up to the ERA codes of practise.

A new legal mpan/ supply would need to be checked and registered under a supplier under a new connection contract and billed on to that date.

chanz4

Terrylw1 wrote: »

By EDF, do you mean supplier though?

Suppliers can only see the meters they have customers for.

So, if another supplier has it, EDF can't see it.

Have you contacted the distribution MPAS? They get the meter details sent to them so they can trace it and see which MPAN it is connected to. Also, they can see all properties in their region unlike suppliers so can see what they have in your street to see if there is a property with an address problem.

You can't be back billed beyond a year if there have been no energy bills produced at all, Ofgem won't allow this on domestics. If you had been billed but not correctly, it becomes more open to dispute as Ofgem's code isn't relevant and the billing code cones into play...which has clauses about the customers conduct e.g. have they withheld, not notified or prevented billing in some way.

If the sparky said it was connected to the mains, but no one can find the meter...it can be a record issue. The most important thing to establish is that the distributor has your address on their system with a connected MPAN. If so, the meter is incorrectly set up in supplier/agent systems and it can be sorted. If the distributor cannot find you, no one ever created a MPAN and registered you. This latter scenario means they can only bill you from the point of registration and not even for the last 12 months.

Suppliers can see all information in a street on ecoes, including meter details.

Terrylw1

chanz4 wrote: »

Suppliers can see all information in a street on ecoes, including meter details.

Only for their registered sites, its a breach if the DPA for a supplier to search into records that they do not supply sites to.

The customer can call the distributor and let them search through all the data needed in the street if required.

A supplier can to an extent do the same in that they can determine the addresses in the street but they cannot access them fully if not supplying them.

If the supplier is unsure who supplies the site, they have to select No for a partial record.

Terrylw1

chanz4 wrote: »

90% disagree, although they cant be charged for the admin or new meter the op has benfited from electricity which has been taken from the grid via an ilegal connection done by a third party and is liable. The back billing policy does not apply to this as distrubution are not signed up to the ERA codes of practise.

A new legal mpan/ supply would need to be checked and registered under a supplier under a new connection contract and billed on to that date.

If its not confirmed as a tamper, its a pure record issue caused by the distributor.

The ERA code doesn't matte anyway, all parties are bound by the Ofgem policy derived from the Energy patch supercomplaint. This was created to remove the use if statue of limitations for domestic customers.

Theft is a different matter since its a criminal act. A distributor not creating a site is a different matter.

Anyway, if the distributor doesn't know about it...the first thing they will here is a new MPAN request from a chosen supplier. This supplier will not discuss much with them in order to create the record.

The distributor will then only charge the supplier from the 1st settlement date they are registered to it.

The distributor cannot prove when that was installed.

One thing I would be interested in which we haven't heard yet is whether the meter is advancing since the sparky says its connected to the mains. If its advancing, its not a tamper and a site that's never been set up in the distributors MPAS.

This used to happen years ago but the changes in the new connection process prevented it. One shots were often a root cause.

They're rare in elec thesedays.

[Deleted User]

if seal cut, and replaced to look intact its a good chance of a tamper. the link wire is easily removed to get the meter working again. a record of past occupation and useage would show if bypasses have been used, also scorch marks around the tails are a dead giveaway. the marks can be very light sometimes and not always obvious