Random breath tests!

LincolnshireYokel

coinxoperated wrote: »

I don't see why people want to argue against them? Surely its better than them not checking?

Because its the thin end of the wedge. We are innocent until proven guilty, and this is presuming guilt without trial or reason. Whats next? Randomly searching your house? Random street searches? Chaning the law so you have to prove innocence?

Its all one more step closer to and Orwellian Police State. In a democracy, the state has no right to survielle, harass, search or otherwise interfere with perfectly innocent citizens,.

lazer

thenudeone wrote: »

Powers to search are already limited to when there is a reasonable suspicion (except when related to terrorism).

Random checks of vehicles and drivers are the only way that certain offences could ever be discovered.

Of course we now have ANPR and databases of insurances which the police can check without stopping a vehicle, but all will they say is that someone is insured to drive the vehicle whose registration number is fitted to the car. These databases would never catch a car with false plates or a disqualified or unlicensed driver who had borrowed a friend's insured car, for example.
There is no other way to detect offences like this without stopping the car and checking the driver's identity and licence / insurance status.

So unless you're suggesting that disqualified, unlicensed and uninsured drivers should be allowed to get away with it, you're going to have to accept that the police need the power to stop and check vehicles at random.

They would still be caught in the event of an RTA though wouldn't they? Or if they check the database and a car is registered and insured by Mr Joe Bloggs and DOB 1/1/1945 and the driver looks about 18 - that is reasonable suspision to stop someone.

Sgt_Pepper wrote: »

And you stood up for your rights how?

Oh yes you did the test.

If you're advising others to stand up, why not take the lead?

I didn't know then that they didn't have the authority and that I could refuse!

AlexisV

Joe_Horner wrote: »

Next thing, you look round, realise you're living in Nazi Germany, and wonder how it ever happened here.

The inevitable first Nazi reference! :D:D

Honeydog

lazer wrote: »

I object to being stopped for random check points full stop TBH,

As a single female driving home on a sunday night around midnight on a very quiet country road after an 100mile journey, i didn't appreciate being stopped, when i was 5 mins away from home. It didn't feel safe actually!
And yes I had to do a breath test, and i couldn't actually manage to breath for long enough on the first attempt due to nerves! Did I give them any reason to suspect i was drinking probably not.

I believe the polices powers to stop or searc should be limited to where there is reasonable suspision on all occasions - Random stops impose on our liberty and undermine the innocent until proven guilty ethos that we supposedly act by (as do a number of other legal UK actions - 28 day detentions for suspiscion of terrorism offences for example).

Everyone should stand up for their civil rights and liberties, and not think that if people are innocent, they have no problem being stopped, searched, brought in for questioning etc, as they have nothing to hide - but all these thing are inconvienient and can change how people perceive you as a person. For example, the police come to your work place and ask you to come down to the station for questioning - do you think this looks good to your employer, no matter how innocent you are?

What about this case

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-18406769

How do you think the couple felt?

I don't know about not feeling SAFE - those few minutes while the officers stood by your car you were safer than you'd been during the whole rest of the journey.

lazer

Honeydog wrote: »

I don't know about not feeling SAFE - those few minutes while the officers stood by your car you were safer than you'd been during the whole rest of the journey.

Depends how good and honest the officers were though to be honest.

A sole female stopped by 2 men on a very quiet country road in the middle of the night.
It doesn't matter to me if they were police, or farmers, or footballers, or bankers, or factory workers, or taxi drivers - it just didn't feel safe, there wasn't any houses for about a mile away from they were stopping.

Sgt_Pepper_2

lazer wrote: »

Depends how good and honest the officers were though to be honest.

A sole female stopped by 2 men on a very quiet country road in the middle of the night.
It doesn't matter to me if they were police, or farmers, or footballers, or bankers, or factory workers, or taxi drivers - it just didn't feel safe, there wasn't any houses for about a mile away from they were stopping.

So what do you think the police were going to do?

Best not call 999 if you are ever in a difficult situation.

lazer

Sgt_Pepper wrote: »

So what do you think the police were going to do?

Best not call 999 if you are ever in a difficult situation.

I suppose no police man has ever attacked, robbed, or done anything else wrong have they?

Why should a person feel safe just because it was the police that stopped them, just as in ever other profession, there are some unsavoury characters, however the police can also use their position to gain access to people and property.

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/715842-met-policeman-arrested-on-suspicion-of-rape

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-15759361

This is 2 quick examples from a google search.

A serving policeman can also be a criminal.

LincolnshireYokel

lazer wrote: »

A serving policeman can also be a criminal.

Absolutely, and all the way to the top.

Violent Chief Constables
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-33302/Former-chief-constable-faces-prosecution.html

Hypocritical Chief Constable
http://www.tpuc.org/node/127

Corrupt Chief Constables
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/03/cleveland-police-head-arrested-corruption

Corrupt anti-corruption officers
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2027963/Phone-hacking-investigation-detective-arrested-leaking-information-Guardian.html

Lying Traffic officers
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2049276/Police-officer-barman-jailed-lying-oath-escape-driving-ban.html

I could post hundreds of these.................. the police in this country are institutionally corrupt from the top down.

Sgt_Pepper_2

lazer wrote: »

I suppose no police man has ever attacked, robbed, or done anything else wrong have they?

Why should a person feel safe just because it was the police that stopped them, just as in ever other profession, there are some unsavoury characters, however the police can also use their position to gain access to people and property.

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/715842-met-policeman-arrested-on-suspicion-of-rape

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-15759361

This is 2 quick examples from a google search.

A serving policeman can also be a criminal.

Suppose you don't go to the doctors in case you get touched up.

You never use a taxi or in out alone.

What about dates? Ah there are less stranger rapes so in that case do you not know any males just in case?

Sgt_Pepper_2

LincolnshireYokel wrote: »

Absolutely, and all the way to the top.

Violent Chief Constables
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-33302/Former-chief-constable-faces-prosecution.html

Hypocritical Chief Constable
http://www.tpuc.org/node/127

Corrupt Chief Constables
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/03/cleveland-police-head-arrested-corruption

Corrupt anti-corruption officers
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2027963/Phone-hacking-investigation-detective-arrested-leaking-information-Guardian.html

Lying Traffic officers
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2049276/Police-officer-barman-jailed-lying-oath-escape-driving-ban.html

I could post hundreds of these.................. the police in this country are institutionally corrupt from the top down.

Most from the daily mail I bet.