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MisterT2

To be pedantic, if using plastic pipes you still need to bond the taps to each other then the sink and to any electrical socket(s). If in doubt - ask someone who is "qualified to answer".

Most kitchen fitters don't know how to cross-bond and so its always good to negotiate discount for them leaving you with a life-threatening situation.   :-/
Without writing another huge essay, people who put showers in bedrooms should also check out all the extra bonding requirements.

Always use 10mm - you are allowed to use smaller sizes but only if mechanically protected/supported.

If you have specific questions you can pm me as I don't usually revisit threads.

MisterT2

wishfairy - I'm not a trained plumber but .....

Have a look at a construction site next time you visit Florida. Their wiring and plumbing is very different. They use a central manifold with pipes that lead to one outlet. At each appliance or tap, there is an isolation valve on the wall. This is a really good idea.

I generally put isolation valves in circuit whenever I do plumbing. They only take a couple of minutes and cost £2.50 or so. They can save so much time. It leaves me to mess with one room at a time without affecting anyone else.

In the UK, I have no problem with plastic pipes - just the connections that seem to leak whenever you twist them. However, in a log cabin, you might be better off with these as they will give you more flexibility as the logs dry out.

Also, you can quite often catch a series on Discovery Home and Leisure (on sky) to do with log cabins. I was amazed at the number of things you needed to consider. Its an American series - husband and wife team (or at least male and female). Last cabin was in the snow.

aussielle

This is taken from NICEIC Connections - The Niciec Journal for Approved Electrical Contractors.

Question.  Does a metalic kitchen sink, such as a stainless steel sink, require supplementary bonding?

Answer.  Supplementary bonding to a metallic kitchen sink is not required.

Explanation.  Supplementary bonding is required in certain locations of increased shock risk such as those covered by part 6 of BS 7671 (bathrooms, saunas, swimming pools etc).  A kitchen is not considered in BS 7671 to be a location of increased shock risk, hence supplementary bonding is not required.

Furthermore, a metalic sink will almost certainly not be an extraneous-conductive-part in it's own right (as defined in part 2; definitions of BS 7671) and therefore the need for main equipotential bonding is unlikely to arise.

An extraneous-conductive-part is defined in part 2 of BS 7671 as;
A conductive part liable to introduce a potential, generally earth potential, and not forming part of the electrical installation.

A note in the 15th Edition of the IEE Wiring Regulations stated that sinks might need to be bonded in areas where local supplementary bonding was provided.  However, such a note was note included in the 16th Edition.

Hope that helps  :)

MisterT2

I was waiting for that ......

Well we could debate the regs, but this isn't the best forum. The full quote from the NIC site actually reads:
The 15th Edition of the IEE Wiring Regulations required supplementary bonding to be applied to all sinks where extraneous-conductive-parts were not reliably connected to the main bonding, and many examples still exist today.

So let me ask - what's safest? Where is the best practice?

Not letting off steam .... just common sense and best practice ...... This is a forum and therefore it is always best to offer best practice. As pointed out elsewhere accreditation does not necessarily mean that they know what they are doing and hence to ask someone who was "qualified to answer".

Don't forget that the regs change from time to time and policy regarding extrusions etc has changed every time

ksh123

Dear Lucid
its very generous of you to offer advice like this. Hope you're not regretting it already
I have 2 light fittings, one in the bathroom and one in the kitchen, that flicker on and off a lot and also blow bulbs pretty frequently (the kitchen one has halogen bulbs in case that's relevant). Both fittings were installed by handymen as opposed to qualified electricians. Do you think there could be something wrong that needs checking out? If yes, how much should I expect to pay an electrician to do that?
thanks, if you can help that would be great. Dont want to go up in flames one of these days!

Glad

my ariston dishwasher is 3 yrs old
6 mnths ago it stopped washimg, didn't seem to be taking in water although sounded as if it was washing

left it for 2 wks and suddenly it started working again

now same thing is happening
and it is also tripping the fuse when we start it up

help

MisterT2

ksh123It sounds like you have a poor connection somewhere in the circuit. Three ways of saying this:

1. Definitely a priority to get it fixed as there is a potential fire risk
2. It could be that there is an isolated problem at the ceiling rose or poor connectivity in the lamp fitting. This will quite often cause light bulbs to blow.
3. It could be that you have a batch of dodgey bulbs.

Nothing against "the handyman" - just cowboys - after all 12v systems are generally intended for the DIY (though I have yet to see a pack that tells you all the regulations that affect its installation).

I would say that if the problems were reasonably coincidental then go for 1 as 2 and 3 are probably caused by the same poor connection (that is possibly arcing). It should be a simple problem necessitating remaking the connections and possibly replacing a junction box (if they used cheap junk)

I would have it checked asap. aussielle posted a phone number as top thread on another forum. You pay your money, take your choice.  You can also check upmystreet.com for local electricians.


glad.
First unplug it now. Ignoring the safety aspect, which I hope is blatantly obvious, it might save you money. I presume that you are referring to "tripping the fuse" as tripping an mcb (minature circuit breaker). This sounds like you have an earth leakage fault on the machine (the insulation on something has failed and is causing the circult to trip) or it could be that there are certain motor characteristics that cause the same problem (but these are very rare).

So lets assume its the first. Continuous tripping can cause problems with some mcbs/trips which would then also need to be changed (so be aware of that).

I would say that most probably the heater element has corroded and this can sometimes be that one of the seals on the end of the element has broken down. This means that you won't be able to see a problem, but it can be easily measured using a megger (this does a test at a much higher voltage to spot problems like this). If you take it apart then you might see that the element is corroded and has holes in it. Either way, you will need a megger to confirm the problem. Like I say, probably the element but it could also be something dripping onto the electrical components (which would dry out over a couple of weeks and explain that). If you want to save some money, unplug it, take the back off and have a look. You have nothing to lose apart from having to put the back on it again. Leave it unplugged till the problem is fixed anyway (for a number of reasons) and especially if you have a fridge/freezer on the same circuit.

If you can't see anything visible, you will need to find someone with a megger.

Just so noone bites my head off, it could be a couple of other things, but this is a good starting point.

If you want a different approach and regardless of the fact that you don't have an extended warranty, you might have reasonably expected it to last more than 2.5 years. You could pay for an independent inspection. If that finds it was a manufacturing fault that didn't appear for some time, then you will have recourse against the supplier(retailer not the manufacturer) - or so I am told.

MisterT2

Just to clarify - "I would say that most probably the heater element has corroded and this can sometimes be that one of the seals on the end of the element has broken down."

What I meant is that either:
1) The heater element had corroded and water was getting through the corrosion.
2) One of the seals that keeps the moisture out of the element has broken down (a bit like margins around fillings breaking down).

Just wanted to make it clearer.

luciddreamer

Dear Lucid
its very generous of you to offer advice like this. Hope you're not regretting it already
I have 2 light fittings, one in the bathroom and one in the kitchen, that flicker on and off a lot and also blow bulbs pretty frequently (the kitchen one has halogen bulbs in case that's relevant). Both fittings were installed by handymen as opposed to qualified electricians. Do you think there could be something wrong that needs checking out? If yes, how much should I expect to pay an electrician to do that?
thanks, if you can help that would be great. Dont want to go up in flames one of these days!

Hi KSH123,
No i'm not regretting it at all otherwise i wouldn't have posted it, and besides MisterT2 is keeping it up to date! ;D
As Mister T2 said It sounds like a loose connection which is arcing (can you hear a crackling sound when this problem occurs?) and cauing the flickering (this can cause a fire so you do need to get it checked out).

You say the lamps you are using are halogen, are they enclosed? If they are not and you're touching the lamp itself the grease from your fingers weakens the glass when halogen lamps are turned on and this often blows them, you should use a tissue or the protective covering that comes with them.

Altough you don't have to be a qualified electrician (Just competent) to do electrical work, i would never let just a handyman do electrical work.

Electrical firms around London Charge around £25-£35 call out fee and then around £15-£20 per hour and it shouldn't take more than an hour or so to sort this problem out so long as they don't have to go lifting carpets and floor boards. but it does sound like a dodgy connection or transformer (if they're low voltage) so they shouldn't have to do this!
If it turns out that the handymen were at fault you could try charging the bill to them (i would, and if they say they won't pay tell them you're reporting them to trading standards), but then it's gonna start getting legal and thats not my area.

Hope this helps

Paul

ksh123

Hi Lucid and Mr T2, thanks both for your replies.
I will indeed get these lights checked out. However I don't hear any crackling or sound of "arcing" from them but safe is better than the other thing!
Its useful to know the sort of costs and timescales I can expect so thanks for that too.
Mr T2 not sure what you meant about aussielle leaving a phone number somewhere? Sadly my area does not exist on Up My Street, apart from a query I submitted so its back to Yellor Pages, lol.
Thanks again.
ksh123