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aussielle

Ksh123

This may help you


http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=Home;action=display;num=1085815169

ksh123

ahaah, now I understand. Thank you Aussielle. :-*

System

Hi,
I was recently going to replace the bathroom wall strip light (above sink/mirror) with a similar one that also has a shaver socket. However, when I took the old one off I noted that it only has the live and the earth wires connected to it (i.e no neutral). The neutral was just cut short and taped over the end. I decided not to go ahead because I was a bit confused, shouldn't al three wires be connected. Whithout the neutral what is the return path of the circuit ?

Thanks.

MisterT2

I hate to say it, but get an electrician. Definitely sounds like you have some duff wiring.

Fran

I thought I'd hang a picture on the wall yesterday in the kitchen. Now I knew something about the wiring going from the switch upwards but wasnt' sure if it goes straight up or along (in this case to the door) and up. So I got one of them picture hanging hooks and gently tapped it in to start so that I didn't need to hold the pin (as it's metal I thought) and thought well I'll try it anyway. "Phoooooffffff!!!!!". Out went the lights! What a shot, bet you couldn't do it if you had to. What I would like to know is, should I have been able to do that? I thought wiring had to be encased? I know I was stupid to risk it but there must be other people like me who are just not sure about where to bang things in. Also, someone told me there should be a cover over the fuses because it's a fire risk. Someone installed a shower at some point and the shower fuse sticks out so a cover wouldn't fit on even if it was there. Does it matter? Thanks for offering your advice, I'm sure there's plenty of idiots like me who take a chance on things, you could help improve our quality of life (by making sure we don't get electric shocks!!!!)

MisterT2

Depending on the age of your wiring there are a lot of different regs that might apply. If cables are covered with conduit - its usually just the cheap plastic type - that won't stop a nail. If its in direct contact with the plaster, then the plaster should not be the thermal insulating type (unless they have increased cable size to take that into account).

The only good thing about your experience is you know where not to put the next nail. Remember that if you are fixing it yourself you will need to use a junction box and not those cheap plastic chocolate blocks.

Fuses should be covered for mechanical protection if nothing else. Whether it offers any additional fire protection depends on the type of fuse. I don't understand why a cover won't fit on it - presumably there is a door that closes onto it.

I could waffle on about checking the fuse is the correct size, but then would have to talk about the size of the cable, power of the shower and length of the cable. If you have any doubts, have someone take a quick look at it.

luciddreamer

I thought I'd hang a picture on the wall yesterday in the kitchen. Now I knew something about the wiring going from the switch upwards but wasnt' sure if it goes straight up or along (in this case to the door) and up. So I got one of them picture hanging hooks and gently tapped it in to start so that I didn't need to hold the pin (as it's metal I thought) and thought well I'll try it anyway. "Phoooooffffff!!!!!". Out went the lights! What a shot, bet you couldn't do it if you had to. What I would like to know is, should I have been able to do that? I thought wiring had to be encased? I know I was stupid to risk it but there must be other people like me who are just not sure about where to bang things in. Also, someone told me there should be a cover over the fuses because it's a fire risk. Someone installed a shower at some point and the shower fuse sticks out so a cover wouldn't fit on even if it was there. Does it matter? Thanks for offering your advice, I'm sure there's plenty of idiots like me who take a chance on things, you could help improve our quality of life (by making sure we don't get electric shocks!!!!)

Hi ya Fran genrally cables should be run vertically behind plaster ie up or down from switches or sockets, but in my time i've seen cables run diagonally across walls. if a socket is below where you want to place a nail you can unscrew it to see if the cable runs up or down!

i've never heard of a cover not being over fuses being a fire risk!! (i'd like to know how? this is rubbish advice ) it sounds to me like you have the old wylex type rewirable fuses and the retro fit MCB type fuse (in case you don't know an MCB is like a switch that you can turn on or off )for your shower (also the shower and i don't want to be more technical here, should be RCD protected! an RCD is like an MCB but has a little button with a T on it for TEST which you should check every month! (by pressing this button and this should make the switch turn off, which you then switch back on) to make sure it works ok) these always make the cover usless but it is not dangerous in any way.

The only cover should be to stop direct contact (that is where you could touch the exposed wire and recieve a shock) with any wires or Bus bar (the bar connected to the fuses) in the fuse board (ccu)

System

I've just had British Gas give me an estimate for a new boiler. The guy said that my main equipotential bond was not up to standard and would need to be upgraded.

He also said that he was surprised that the company who installed my kitchen plus all appliances last year had not fitted one. He implied that they had broken the law. Is he right??? ???

MisterT2

Hey luciddreamer. There were a lot of ways you could have responded that would have been a little more diplomatic.

There are plenty of examples where fires have started in fuse boxes from failed circuit breakers (regardless of type) and I can certainly find a couple if you are interested. There was a suspicion that this was the root cause at a nursing home earlier this year.

Admittedly I missed the fact that they were possibly calling an mcb a fuse. All this tells me is that the person who installed it didn't cut out the knockouts from the front panel. I would have assumed that even a semi-competent person would have done that.

With regard to your comments regarding unscrewing a socket to see if the cable runs up or down. I personally would recommend against this as people would generally need to pull the socket away from the wall. When they pushed it back, they might not check, or not have noticed that the cables had moved to the side of the socket. This may mean that when screwing it back up that they may catch one of the cables, such as the neutral or earth without realising it especially if they don't have an elcb/rcd. I have seen several examples of cables that have been caught through the years putting all manner of faults on their circuits.

In the case of a plastic back box then they could catch the live wire with one of the screws resulting in the screw being live. I have only seen this once on a light switch - but once is one time too many.

MisterT2

Hi Vicky,

Basically, the main bond should run from your fuse box to the gas meter. If you have a look at the gas meter, you should be able to see the cable.

Depending on when your house was wired it could well have been that the recommended cable size has changed since it was installed.

I think it is standard practice for the gas board to check these things, but there is nothing wrong with getting a quote from an electrician - or running the cable yourself and just getting them to connect it. You will probably pay a premium for the cable (as rolls are generally 100m or 50m) and so check whether its worth you doing it yourself first.

In terms of breaking the law ..... the IEEE has a set of regulations that should be followed at the time of installation and during inspections. But that's it, it is a set of regulations and not a set of laws. There are several forums where this is debated time and time again. Last time I looked (2 years ago) the net result was that nothing is legally enforcible in a court - which is really what the question should be. I am sure someone will comment if this has changed since. Regardless, that doesn't mean that you don't have a complaint though.

The kitchen fitters could well have bonded the pipes behind or below a panel. My point is that you need to double check first. There are several comments about bonding sinks earlier in this thread.