Advice regarding dementia, theft and POA

blossomhill_2

Hi OP - what a distressing situation for you

You need to read this
http://www.ageuk.org.uk/documents/en-gb/factsheets/fs78_safeguarding_older_people_from_abuse_fcs.pdf?dtrk=true

regarding financial abuse - if you suspect it you must report it regardless of what you think your Nan would want

And tell the bank that she has no use for a bank card now as she is in hospital and it is vulnerable to theft so they should put a block on it and notify police if anyone attempts to use it as she doesn't have capacity to authorise anyone to use it - they won't need POA to do this

carolan78

blossomhill wrote: »

Hi OP - what a distressing situation for you

You need to read this
http://www.ageuk.org.uk/documents/en-gb/factsheets/fs78_safeguarding_older_people_from_abuse_fcs.pdf?dtrk=true

regarding financial abuse - if you suspect it you must report it regardless of what you think your Nan would want

And tell the bank that she has no use for a bank card now as she is in hospital and it is vulnerable to theft so they should put a block on it and notify police if anyone attempts to use it as she doesn't have capacity to authorise anyone to use it - they won't need POA to do this

Thank you for that but it won't be getting reported. If it were to get reported people would have to speak to my Nan to take it any further and this would do more harm than good for her right now.

The bank could be informed but she still does need a little money whilst in hospital. We take her downstairs in the wheelchair during visiting to the shops or the cafe, she is obsessed with having her purse with her and having x amount of cash in it at all times. If we were to do this how would anyone be able to get her money for her? On top of that she still has bills that need paying, she has never unstood banking so doesn't have direct debits, the money has to withdrawn and then the bills are paid at the post office. How would we do this?

carolan78

Just an update on the care side of things, the nurses refused to let us take her off the ward at all yesterday due to high blood sugars (they wouldn't trust us to recognise a hypo even though we have been dealing with them for over 20 years) so she had a bad night.

My Nan isn't a violent person but you can see the anger and frustration is coming out now. When I spoke to the nurses this morning she had a bad night and threw something at one of the nurses. I don't think the social services will be in the hospital today but I will go see if anyone from PALS is because we can see another 48 hours on the ward with nothing to do but look at 4 walls all day is detrimental to her health.

Before anyone suggests she was in a hypo (because I know hypos can make people violent) that isn't the case, I did check and besides hypos seem to always have made her quite ammerous rather than violent (I can probably count on one hand the umber of times she has turned violent due to a hypo over the years).

Mojisola

carolan78 wrote: »

Onto problem number 2 and the theft. With my Nanna in hospital a family member has been acting rather suspicious regarding paper work such as insurance documents, certain bills and bank statements.

This family member has been taking at the minimum £500 of her benefit money each month. Now we all suspected the family member was borrowing money and not giving it back but we thought it was the odd £20 or £30 here or there nothing on this scale.

They have been taking her bank card (she hasn't gone out anywhere through choice for almost a year) to the other side of the city where they live and making withdrawals there. We know this can not possibly have been for my Nan because another family member draws out what my Nan instructs each week when she does her shopping. The bank card has also been used in a supermarket nowhere near Nans house and it isn't even a supermarket brand she would use (she is set in her ways).

Are you certain that there isn't an agreement between this family member and your Nan? If there isn't, has the person been told that the family has realised that money is being taken out of the account?

Is there some way to lock away the bank card so that only a couple of trusted people have access to it?

I understood using someone else's bank card - even with their agreement - was fraud because no-one else is meant to know the pin.

carolan78

Yes the family member is aware, but this family member is a bit stupid and it isn't beyond them doing it again thinking their tracks are covered. The card is with one person at the moment so cash can still be took out and it isn't to be handed over to anyone else under any circumstances. Nobody else has need for it because as I said my Nan has some cash in her purse.

It wasn't an agreement between my Nan and this person, we know this from comments my Nan has made while she has been in hospital. We told her the balance of her bank yesterday and she stated she had never had that much money, then grabbed our hands and asked us to make sure x doesn't get the card or they will draw it out.

monkeyspanner

carolan78 wrote: »

Yes the family member is aware, but this family member is a bit stupid and it isn't beyond them doing it again thinking their tracks are covered. The card is with one person at the moment so cash can still be took out and it isn't to be handed over to anyone else under any circumstances. Nobody else has need for it because as I said my Nan has some cash in her purse.

It wasn't an agreement between my Nan and this person, we know this from comments my Nan has made while she has been in hospital. We told her the balance of her bank yesterday and she stated she had never had that much money, then grabbed our hands and asked us to make sure x doesn't get the card or they will draw it out.

Although as others have staed an LPA is not available if there is an issue of mental capaity your comment suggests your Nan is aware of the money situation. It is possible she retains sufficient capacity to give someone an LPA and her condition may improve significantly if you can get her into a well monitored caring environment.

With the conditions you have outlined it is also worth considering the possibility of NHS continuing care funding. If successful the NHS would pick up the entire cost of your Nan's residential care. The first step in this process is an intial checklist assessment which should be carried out prior to hospital discharge. If this is of interest a search on the forums for CHC will show you a long thread.

On the issue of the bank card as an additional safeguard it may be possible to get your Nan to sign a letter to her bank requesting a new pin for her bank card.

If she is in receipt of attendance allowance this will not be payable after 28 days in a residential home. This is also the case if she is in hospital for over 28 days so this should be notified to prevent needing to pay back money.

I hope her condition improves so you can get her into a better environment as soon as possible.

PennyMoney

Sorry to hear about your Nan. I hope things get sorted asap.

I was in a similar situation a few months ago. My aunt suffered a minor fall at home. On admission to hospital it became clear she was suffering increasing dementia. She paid all bills by cheque rather than direct debit and her bank statements and receipts suggested that the person who was doing her shopping was having money off her ( but of course I didn't know if that was loans, gifts or otherwise).

Hopefully the social workers that you hope to see tomorrow will be able to advise whether LPA is a possibility. Your Nan could then choose who she wants, and I suspect it's a slightly easier process. If it's decided that someone needs to apply to be Deputy - it is possible to do that without using a solicitor but it's quite a complicated process; from what I remember the payment of application fees depend on the applicant's circumstances (rather than , say, your Nan's).

If bills are becoming due, and you're wary of asking your aunt to sign cheques at the moment, it may be worth phoning the relevant bodies and asking for a bit of leeway. I found that the amount they were prepared to discuss with me varied but it doesn't do any harm to ask.

Re' the money - although there was no evidence of a crime I contacted the police and, without my aunt's knowledge, they went to have an informal chat with the person. I realise that, particularly as it's a family member, you may not want to do that, and that you have plenty of other things to think about at the moment, but it's an option.

Finally - you're probably already doing this but I found it useful to start a notebook to record all meetings, phone calls etc..I always thought I'd remember stuff but it was sometimes useful to be able to refresh my memory!

carolan78

monkeyspanner wrote: »

Although as others have staed an LPA is not available if there is an issue of mental capaity your comment suggests your Nan is aware of the money situation. It is possible she retains sufficient capacity to give someone an LPA and her condition may improve significantly if you can get her into a well monitored caring environment.

With the conditions you have outlined it is also worth considering the possibility of NHS continuing care funding. If successful the NHS would pick up the entire cost of your Nan's residential care. The first step in this process is an intial checklist assessment which should be carried out prior to hospital discharge. If this is of interest a search on the forums for CHC will show you a long thread.

On the issue of the bank card as an additional safeguard it may be possible to get your Nan to sign a letter to her bank requesting a new pin for her bank card.

If she is in receipt of attendance allowance this will not be payable after 28 days in a residential home. This is also the case if she is in hospital for over 28 days so this should be notified to prevent needing to pay back money.

I hope her condition improves so you can get her into a better environment as soon as possible.

Thank you I have been reading elsewhere on the internet regarding the NHS funding, from what I have read it can be a fight to get it, time I have, money I don't so that is what I will do, thank you.

I do think once she is settled in a nursing home with her own things around her (especially her beloved TV) she will improve memory wise a bit. I have been reading up on psychological abuse (because I feel the way she is just left in the ward is just that) and she does show about 60% of the symptoms one been confusion, therefore I am convinced this situation is adding to her already confused state.

The moments she talks of X and the money are a rarity so I am not sure if as her mental state stands today that would be enough. We have however changed her pin number, we didn't realise you can do it in a machine if it's one belonging to her actual bank. It will just be a case of checking the card once a day to ensure X doesn't cancel it.

monkeyspanner

carolan78 wrote: »

Thank you I have been reading elsewhere on the internet regarding the NHS funding, from what I have read it can be a fight to get it, time I have, money I don't so that is what I will do, thank you.

I do think once she is settled in a nursing home with her own things around her (especially her beloved TV) she will improve memory wise a bit. I have been reading up on psychological abuse (because I feel the way she is just left in the ward is just that) and she does show about 60% of the symptoms one been confusion, therefore I am convinced this situation is adding to her already confused state.

The moments she talks of X and the money are a rarity so I am not sure if as her mental state stands today that would be enough. We have however changed her pin number, we didn't realise you can do it in a machine if it's one belonging to her actual bank. It will just be a case of checking the card once a day to ensure X doesn't cancel it.

I think you are right that there would be progress in a more normal environment with some home comforts. There are several issues prevalent in hospital care which can contribute to confusion and in some cases deterioration. Hydration and nutrition are basic but often neglected and of course particularly important for your nan as a diabetic. If your nan has a complex medication regime it may also not be administered properly. I hope your nan makes some progress and she can be discharged soon.

carolan78

I'll be leaving shortly for visiting but hydration is something I brought up with the nurses yesterday. You can see from looking at her lips she isn't properly hydrated (they are all cracked and flaky). I bought her a lipsil to relieve the lips but she still needs monitoring.

I also pulled them up on not keeping an adequate record of her blood sugars, they do them 3 or 4 times a day yet some days none of them have been recorded. Relatively minor but how can the consultant get an overall picture without all the information?

My Aunty is to the point where if we're not given a clear plan of action and timescales on Wednesday she will take my nan out of hospital and to her house and they an do the assessments there. The anxiety is increasing day by day and we're sure it is because of her environment.

If they are keeping her there purely until they stabilize her diabetes we know they won't be able to do that because in the 40 odd years of her having diabetes it has never ever been stable it has always fluctuated from one extreme to the other with maybe a few days at a sensible level in between. We have offered to take in copies of all her blood sugar records for the last 40 years (she is a hoarder lol) to show them but they are not interested!