PCN leased car

Coupon-mad

Ranger please draft your letter based on the links on the MacBudman thread, and post it here first. I presume this is a company car so you need to word it carefully - maybe like this poster did:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3931567

You also need to include a request for your money back for those fake PCN letters. If they fall for this scam then that means they would fall for ANY series of letters on headed notepaper which happen to mention one of their car regs. Involve your Union and your HR Dept and like the above poster, TELL them clearly it's not a fine if they reply as stupidly as the Manager replied to the OP on that thread.

ranger28_2

I work for a small retail company and will claim the money back. Just saw the gov.uk government website (gov.uk/parking-tickets/overview) which says that private parking companies can issue tickets.

While the link says that these are not the same as council issued tickets it doesn't provide any guidance.

Still not sure whether the lease company will listen to me or where this will end..

Coupon-mad

Stop it, you are making me laugh!

Think about it, - anyone can issue something they call a 'ticket'! :rotfl:

Look, I have given you the link to the BVRLA view (linked on the MacBudman thread). The BVRLA are the Trade Body for Lease Companies! That's why they will listen to you because you need to word your letter to point out that they have made a mistake and that the t&cs of your lease hire agreement do NOT cover a fake PCN from a private company and that, moreover, their own Trade Body tells them that they should IGNORE such fake rubbish from private companies.

ONLY a Council or Police (or Train Operator, rarely) can issue a parking PENALTY ticket.

give_them_FA

The problem is that things like Citizens Advice and even Government agencies do not appear to understand how private parking works. They turn to something called the British Parking association for advice; and this is the problem. Despite its grandiose name this is not any sort of independent regulatory body; it was founded by the parking companies for the purpose of furthering their own interests; so the advice it gives is totally misleading. It is, as has been so aptly put, like asking a fox to advise on the security of your hen-coop.

The_Slithy_Tove

ranger28 wrote: »

Deducting £25 per letter from my salary

There they could be on very dodgy ground. Unless your contract of employment specifically allows arbitrary deductions (taxes and the like not included), then an employer cannot simply make a deduction from your salary. Check your contract, as well as the agreement you signed/agreed to regarding the lease car.

Coupon-mad

The_Slithy_Tove wrote: »

There they could be on very dodgy ground. Unless your contract of employment specifically allows arbitrary deductions (taxes and the like not included), then an employer cannot simply make a deduction from your salary. Check your contract, as well as the agreement you signed/agreed to regarding the lease car.

Yep, and look specifically at what it says they can deduct and charge for.

Willing to bet it says fines and penalties only, from 'authorities' (this is neither).

ranger28_2

Got a letter in the post that the lease company has passed on my details to the solicitors.

This is the letter I have drafted -

Dear ABC,

I have seen the attachment and this is at best a speculative invoice. I will not be paying a speculative charge. I have no reason to pay up because someone sends some junk mail to you (which is what this is) which happens to have the registration number of the car I lease from you.

The invoice issued is not a Penalty Charge Notice, nor is it a fine, nor any kind of notification of a traffic offence. It has not been issued by any UK authority and was not issued as a result of a contravention of any current UK traffic legislation. It is therefore not covered under the terms of my lease agreement with XXX and you have no authority to debit any admin fee as there was no requirement on XXX to take any action on receipt of this invoice.

The BVRLA (the UK Trade Organisation for lease companies) are clear that fake PCNs should be ignored and they tell their members that they have no liability for them at all. Please refer to the attached pdf file and I am quoting the section below from page 3 -

It is important to note that currently there is nothing to legally oblige our members to provide customer details or indeed pay a fine which is issued to them as the registered keeper of the vehicle. Some of our members, having had legal advisors review their contracts, have determined that they are unable to provide customer details to private parking companies and will therefore always reject all fines issued to them by private parking companies.

Please do not attempt to charge me any monies to forward on a scam invoice. This is a breach of your own terms and conditions as the invoice does not constitute a legally enforceable parking ticket as per the Road Traffic Act.

Furthermore under the Contract law, you as the registered keeper are not obliged to name the driver at the time of the alleged 'offence'.

You are therefore not entitled to charge me an administration fee for junk mail that your own trade organisation advises you to ignore. Please immediately refund the fee if it has been deducted and do not make any deductions from my salary about this matter.

Thank you
R

Is this good enough? What should I do next?

Below are the terms from the lease covering tickets -

Parking fines

It is your responsibility to purchase adequate parking time in car parks and park legally. Any parking fines are due to be paid by you.

Any unpaid fines and penalties relating to motoring offences will be sent to XXX. XXX will pass your name and home address to the relevant authorities, who will then contact you.

This is referred to as the nominating process and a £25 administration fee will be deducted from your salary.

give_them_FA

Yes. The point is that these are not fines.

Looks good to me. Any refusal and its off to MCOL.

Coupon-mad

Looks good to me except the phrase ''under the Contract law'' doesn't read quite right as isn't a single Law as such, it's not 'The Contract Law', it's a general term. I think as well as contract law (general term!) applying, the DPA also applies.

So either perhaps change the phrase to say 'under contract law and the Data Protection Act' or lose the phrase completely and say:

''Furthermore, you as the registered keeper are not obliged to name the driver'' at the time of the alleged 'offence' (not sure I would call it an 'offence' even in inverted commas, maybe 'alleged incident')?

And I would finish clearly by stating something like:

''For the avoidance of doubt, I need to clearly reiterate that ABC has no liability whatsoever for a fake PCN nor the junk mail that always follows. There can be no repercussions for ABC at all because under current law it is only a matter for a driver alone and is unenforceable in any case. If there is any query about this then I am sure the BVRLA can explain the legal position.''

EHBA

ranger28 wrote: »

Got a letter in the post that the lease company has passed on my details to the solicitors.

This is the letter I have drafted -

Ranger28 - three questions for clarification please. Sorry if the answers should be blindingly obvious.

1/ ref the letter you have just received, who sent it ?
2/ Whose solicitors have your details been passed on to ?
3/ To whom are you drafting the letter ?

One of the key issues is finding out how much the parties involved know about the PPC/lease car 'situation'.

Reading through the thread it would seem that none of the parties knows much at all. This would be par for the course.

Some of the statements in your draft are what I would consider to be contentious and confrontational and could cause others to try and disprove or react against them rather than encourage them to be 'onside' with your position.

Therefore a key element of your letter should be the education of the relevant party or parties, who don't know about PPC's etc.

Pls advise ref the questions and the letter can be fine tuned accordingly.