Home Insurance - Lost Keys, then found, still an "incident"

mrfrisbee

Arrrrrrrggg,

Quick summary.

Wife misplaced house keys, I called our contents insurer (LV) to ask if I was covered and whether they insisted the locks be changed (to maintain cover etc). They said we were covered but it was up to us what we do about the locks - I said I would let them know if I intended to make a claim.

We found the keys in the lining of a jacked a day later so made no claim.

I have now asked for the claim to be closed (as there was not claim) and for it to be removed from all the records. They say they must keep it as an "incident" as it may effect my risk profile (though it is unlikely to change my premium with LV). I have argued that they must not do that as I do not want it on the CUE database as I would then have to declare the "incident" to all other insurers etc. I am insisting that it is totally removed.

Obviously, the "incident" did not actually happen as we did not lose the keys, we just did not remember/know where they were for a while.

Formal complaint is now raised so that I can waste a few days of my time arguing this (advice is take it to the ombudsman if they do not remove it totally).

Any other advice or similar stories to tell? What constitutes a loss of keys and do I have to call them each time she loses something for a few hours even if I never need to make a claim or suffered any loss etc.

What do you think (apart from how ridiculous the situation is).

Quentin

Once you report a loss they all note it. And it will be marked on the database as a no claim incident.

All you can do is make your complaint and keep escalating if their reply is not to your liking.

(If it eventually ends up as they "win", then you must disclose it to other insurers - and do so in the meantime should you approach other insurers for any quotes whilst this is ongoing)

mrfrisbee

Thanks for the reply, the key point here is that there was no loss at all (let alone a claim) as the keys were not lost, they were misplaced for a few hours.

I was mistaken when I called them thinking they were lost - therefore the "incident" never happened.

I called them for advice as to what I should do if the keys turned out to be lost.

Quentin

mrfrisbee wrote: »

Thanks for the reply, the key point here is that there was no loss at all (let alone a claim) as the keys were not lost, they were misplaced for a few hours......

You could fight to have the word "lost" replaced by "misplaced", but is it worth it? (As you now know, it's not just "claims" that get recorded on your history!)

adamc260

mrfrisbee wrote: »

Thanks for the reply, the key point here is that there was no loss at all (let alone a claim) as the keys were not lost, they were misplaced for a few hours.

I was mistaken when I called them thinking they were lost - therefore the "incident" never happened.

I called them for advice as to what I should do if the keys turned out to be lost.

The incident did happen..

If someones car is stolen and then recovered, an incident still took place. Same thing really.

mrfrisbee

Having your car stolen is not the same as thinking you lost your keys. Whatever happened to common sense and integrity?

FYI - I just filled in an online quote form with the same insurers and without this non-event being mentioned the premium is £302 per year, with it (there is no option to put a "non claim" incident so it has to go down as a "lost personal property away from home" with no value either) the premium increases to £453.

So, £150 extra per year for 2-3 years up to £450 for thinking I had lost some keys for half a day. How on earth does that make sense?

What is the definition of an incident? Do you have to report each time you lose your keys for more than x minutes?

This sort of nonsense simply encourages the very thing it is trying to prevent - honesty. Why would I now ever report anything to the insurers unless I was going to make a claim?

I was doing the right thing to check if they insisted on the locks being changed to maintain cover (imagine someone found the keys in the street and opened our front door and stole stuff). Had I told them they were lost and they said (as they did) "if you want to replace the locks that is fine with us but you dont have to" - then they would have to cover me. Had I not told them they would wiggle out of paying somehow.

In fact, when I called they immediately said I was not covered at all anyway. They then changed their mind when I told them to read page 6 of their policy document.

TSx

Unfortunately, it does increase your risk profile - you're someone who's more likely to claim (or at least enquire about claiming) - they prefer people who never consider claiming (this does indicate you may be willing to claim for lower value losses as well). That doesn't mean I think it's fair, just that I can see their logic.

The insurer I work for disregards completely claims with no payout (so withdrawn claims, repudiated claims or claims where only fees have been paid) and don't take them into consideration for premiums.

You may find if you ring the company who you want to go with, an explain it's an incident rather than a claim, they will waive the additional premium.

In the mean time, continue with your formal complaint - and let us know the outcome, I'd be interested.

Quentin

mrfrisbee wrote: »

...What is the definition of an incident? Do you have to report each time you lose your keys for more than x minutes?

An "incident" is usually defined (for insurance) as an event that could lead to a claim.

It became a recorded "incident" when you reported it. So you have to accept that.

All you can do now is take this through appeal/complaint - though why you expect to have to "waste days" over this is a bit of a mystery! You will have one issue that you will keep escalating (in writing) should the answer not be the one you want.

Their take could be: you carelessly lost/mislaid your keys (which could have been stolen for all you knew, with possible expensive consequences had you not realised they were missing till after a burglary had happened), and now they know of this have correctly added it to your profile.

In fact, when I called they immediately said I was not covered at all anyway. They then changed their mind when I told them to read page 6 of their policy document.

Whether or not you were covered against the event is irrelevant to them logging an incident.

l0u1se

Quentin has explained it perfectly, nothing else to say really.

dacouch

2sides2everystory wrote: »

On what basis are we to accept your view, l0uIse? Are you also from another planet, perhaps ?

Funnily enough, I also agree that Quentin has hit the nail on the head

I think Insurance may have moved on since you were involved, incidents / losses as the OP has described are noted by a lot of Insurers not days.

Edit to add the original quote

2sides2everystory wrote: »

Quentin, again I find you posting a view which is completely alien to me and I had a very good insurance training.

I think the Information Commissioner would laugh in your face if you tried to defend keeping irrelevant personal data in any database such as that which is the subject of this post.

I have no idea what you think you are expert in, but it ain't this kind of thing - not on this planet, anyway!

Your obsession with pressing the definition of an "incident" makes me wonder if you have some link with aviation where they like to distinguish between incidents and accidents. Temporarily mislaying your keys is not anything that anyone's insurer should be recording on any database, let alone thinking of sharing it in some form with other parties including a conclusion that the insured is some kind of increased risk.

Your take on this is ridiculously skewed.

dacouch

2sides2everystory wrote: »

Well that's very interesting dacouch, as I was wondering what someone like you might think. What have you allowed to happen to the industry since I left it? Do I need to return and bang a few heads?

I have to say I find your view most perplexing. A nonsense, even.

A responsible policyholder thinks they've lost their keys so calls their insurer for advice. The next day they find the keys (as 99% of us all do when we misplace our keys) and now finds a black mark against their record? Total codswallop. If even you have been brainwashed by such nonsense ideas, then I really despair about what kind of minds are running financial services businesses. I think I already know, actually but I did until today think that least some old-stagers might be immune - clearly not anymore :eek:

Is the Ombudsman good enough for you ?