Best Way to Come Off Benefits Gradually

TryingToWork

Hi,

I saw another similar titled thread, but their story is very different to mine. They are expecting a windfall; I am not (- I wish!)

I want to be self employed, working from home, but my income will be very small to begin with.

I have various conditions including dyslexia, bipolar, aspergers and chronic pain, and currently in receipt of:
Housing benefit
Council Tax Benefit
Income Support
Incapacity Benefit
and low rate DLA

I have been learning how to be an online affiliate marketer, so that I can work from home.

I have had many jobs in the past, but always got fired because I always had big misunderstandings with people, or people thought I was being rude when I wasn't. Or sometimes it would be my fault because I would argue (not keep my gob shut if I witnessed a miscarriage of justice or lack of common sense).

So I understand when hard-working people say "why can't you work?" but I really do find it hard to work for an employer. It is very depressing getting fired, on average, every three months and in between, falling out without all my colleagues, and dread going in to work each day.

But I know I could work for myself ok promoting products online.

But each week, I would be earning a different amount, so I can't tell the authorities that I earn a specific amount each week.

Also, I would obviously be earning next to nothing to begin with, so I am scared that if I tell the benefits people, that I am self employed, they will stop or reduce my money and I will not have enough money to live on.

Twice previously I have had my money stopped and mistakes made when they thought my circumstances had changed, but actually had not. So what are they going to be like when my circumstances REALLY change?!!

And the fact that it's not going to be a fixed amount that I earn each week really worries me, because the benefits system is only designed for people going into work with regular fixed salaries; not fluctuating ones.

I am confident that I will be organised enough to do the job well, but I am not confident that I can fill in the relevant paperwork needed for the benefits people, or make myself understood by them.

I asked the Shaw Trust a while back and they said I would have to give the authorities a "projected figure" of income. That means I would have to guess. How on earth is that going to work?

I'm not convinced they would accept that, and I don't want to get into trouble by guessing wrong.

Also, they implied I would have to do the paperwork every week, and take it somewhere. This would take me ages to fill in and take valuable time from marketing, as I am a slow worker.

Is there a way I can get a support worker who would help me with the red tape? I had one who helped me claim in the first place, and another one when I moved house, and I don't know what I would have done without them.

I'm really hoping someone can help me because this is the ONE thing stopping me from going for it and becoming self employed.

thanks

daimonde

Theres a couple of ways of going about this, either way id suggest making an appointment with an advisor at your JCP, there are measures in place to help people back into work & funds available & theyre the ones with most knowledge in this area for all the grief they get.


The options i can think of are, firstly if you want very gradual, ask / look into permitted work.
You get to keep the 'safety net' of the IS/IB and still work -
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/disabledpeople/financialsupport/dg_10020667
Permitted work used to be called Therapeutic Earnings & the idea was to ease people back into the workplace. Im not 100% sure how this works & whether self employment would be accepted.

As the IS is still in pay, it doesnt impact on HB/CTB at all, nor DLA.

Direct gov has some info on self employed work -
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/employment/jobseekers/lookingforwork/dg_173931



The second would be to end your IS/IB. You can cover most of it with a self employed credit (not included as income for HB/CTB) & working tax credits.
DLA would not be affected.

HB / CTB - my LA, id expect most would be the same but worth checking, would accept someone starting up as self employed is likely to have nil / low income for the first 3months and would assess you as only having your Working Tax credits as income. As such you should still qualify for full HB/CTB. This would then be reviewed after the 3months & theyd want to see profit / loss of your business & then use this revised figure for the next few months.

If you have been on IS for 6months+ and come off it to start work of 16hrs+ which you expect to last 5weeks+ then you can receive an 'extended payment period' of HB/CTB which would mean full HB/CTB for 4 weeks anyway.


I have seen plenty of people who almost have a hobby rather than working & are no worse off than on JSA/IS with Working Tax Credits & DLA.


There is no red tape as such, its just a change to your life that needs a bit of paperwork, go for it.

missapril75

Further to that excellent reply, the accounts shouldn't be difficult.

You just record the dates and amounts of monies received. You can buy an accounts book to record it; make your own or there's probably a template available online somewhere.

You also list any costs incurred relating to the work - stationery, costs of meeting clients (if you did that) advertising, online fees involved etc and the time you put in.

Be aware that anything (time) you do relating to the work will count, not just the bits that get you an income.

For example, if you spend three hours a day online work related, Mon-Fri, you'll have done 15 hours work even if Friday was the only day you did something that netted you a payment.

I read some time ago that the "Enterprise Allowance" was returning. That was a couple of decades ago and used to pay £40 a week to people trying to become self employed.

This is the sort of thing someone at the job centre can inform you about.

Anubis_2

If you go the permitted work route, so much will be deducted from IS. It's the route I am going to take when an advisor eventually contacts me (been waiting two weeks but I'm not well enough to go out to the JC ATM so I have to be patient.)

Or you can loose benefits apart from DLA and go on tax credits. You can work out what WTC and HB and CT you would be entitled to using the calculator here.

TBH I am considering this except I don't know if I can manage 16 hours so wanting advice from advisors on linking rules. I will be SE but contracted as there is work there waiting so I will have a steady income each week and very very little expenses, so small I am not even going to bother claiming for them :rotfl:

You will need to register as SE on low earnings and if you rent your home ensure your LL knows about SE as it might be in your tenancy about running a business from home as there ****may**** be commercial property implications which I am trying to find out more about.

WTC are based on the previous year so it will be based on benefits income but only *some* benefits. After the year, it will work on the year previous and you will know what you earn by then.

You will need to keep an accurate record, basic book keeping at first of profit/loss income/expenditure and keep all receipts.

There is a helpline here http://search2.hmrc.gov.uk/kb5/hmrc/contactus/view.page?record=1JNuf06zzrM and you may want to read through this http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/selfemployed/register-selfemp.htm

TryingToWork

Thanks everyone.

I have made an appointment for the job centre, but I hope I get someone better than I got last time. They still have me on file as having a trade which I am no longer fit enough to do, and the last woman kept pushing me to do that and would not listen to me.

Also as there seems to be several routes I can take, do I get to pick which one?

(Not that I know the best one to take!)


You seem to know a lot Diamonde, and have explained it very well thanks. I just hope that it will be as simple as you explained it.


And Anubis,
"Or you can loose benefits apart from DLA and go on tax credits. You can work out what WTC and HB and CT you would be entitled to using the calculator here."

Sorry where is the calculator for that please?

And waiting for job centre people to get back to me would drive me crazy. If I knew I'd get a knowledgable helpful person at the end of it, I would be less anxious.


And thanks for the bookkeeping advice MissApril75, (I'm dreading that bit too - failed maths twice - but trying not to think about it yet!)

thanks

daimonde

theres a few calculators knocking about, most people on here push the http://turn2us.org.uk/ site, personally i tend to recommend the http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Diol1/DoItOnline/DoItOnlineByCategory/DG_172666 but ive had no problems with either.

It really should be quite easy, i think the biggest hurdle is actually taking the plunge. ive dealt with people doing similar & in a worse position to be honest & theyve had no problems, but they did have a good bit of support behind them, maybe someone else can recommend a 3rd party for advise or assistance outside of the JCP ?

Good luck

TryingToWork

Thanks a lot Diamonde,

I am trying to fill out the first link's calculator, but I am finding it confusing (it don't take much).

For example on the question:
"Incapable of work for over 52 weeks"

My Answer:
Normal work: - Not when I get fired every 3 months.
But self employed: - I certainly hope so

It's stuff like this that makes my case not black and white.

(I clicked Yes, becuase I THINK it means in my self emplyment, but I had to pluck an earnings figure from thin air at the beginning, so I put £100 a month).

I also rang a support agency to see if I can get some help.

thanks

TryingToWork

OK, I finished the calculator and if I was to earn just £100 a month, I would get an additional £60 a week IS to live on.

I'd get HB and CT paid, but I'm supposed to live off £85 a week (before tax!). I don't have a car and I live very frugally indeed, but that's just ridiculous.

oh wait I forgot the DLA - I think I'd still get that...

back to the drawing board...

Anubis_2

TryingToWork wrote: »

OK, I finished the calculator and if I was to earn just £100 a month, I would get an additional £60 a week IS to live on.

I'd get HB and CT paid, but I'm supposed to live off £85 a week (before tax!). I don't have a car and I live very frugally indeed, but that's just ridiculous.

oh wait I forgot the DLA - I think I'd still get that...

back to the drawing board...

How many hours are you working? It should give an amount for tax credits and not IS if you are working a certain number of hours.

BigAunty

How does online affiliate marketing work? Forgive my ignorance, I just want to understand how you make money.

In order to qualify for working tax credits if that's your aim, there is a criteria that the claimant spends their time on activities with an expectation of receiving payment, not just the hope of it. The HMRC site will explain a lot more about what qualifies as renumerative employment.

Some posters come to the forum after they've been investigated by the HMRC and found not to comply with the terms of WTC because while they were 'busy', their activities didn't comply with the renumerative aspect or they couldn't prove how they spent their time (little in the evidence of marketing, customers, invoices, materials, etc). It's not that you have to earn x sum per week or anything, it's possible to trade at a loss and get WTC, but more about the type of work they were doing.

TryingToWork

Anubis:
"How many hours are you working? It should give an amount for tax credits and not IS if you are working a certain number of hours."

I don't remember being asked in the calculator how many hours I would be working. But it would be about 16 - 20 hours a week.

Big Aunty:
"How does online affiliate marketing work? Forgive my ignorance, I just want to understand how you make money."

I would build websites, drive traffic to them and make money by promoting other people's products on my sites, through product reviews and ads.

"In order to qualify for working tax credits if that's your aim, there is a criteria that the claimant spends their time on activities with an expectation of receiving payment, not just the hope of it. The HMRC site will explain a lot more about what qualifies as renumerative employment."

I will be expecting an income as I have learned how to get traffic to the site and how to get conversions (get people to buy). And ALL the work I do will be official work - ultimately to be paid.

thanks