Best Way to Come Off Benefits Gradually

TryingToWork

Anubis wrote: »

To be entitled to WTC you HAVE to be working at LEAST 16 hours. If you keep inputting anything less than 16 hours you will never get a WTC result, it will ALWAYS show as ZERO.

Therfore when you are calculating for WTC please input at least 16 hours, I am unsure why you keep inputting 15 hours as the result will only then show you your IS entitlement (based on the fact you are not including IS)

I now have put 16-29 hours but get NOTHING apart from HB!

I'm obviously doing something seriously wrong. Maybe it's because I am still putting in £100. But in month one, £100 is optimistic! - I already have costs (web design, domains, website hosting etc), but no earnings, so I have making a loss for several months.

If I can't get a decent result for that figure of earnings, it would be foolish to start work.

Or is it something else I am doing wrong? I put full long-term IB, DLA and no IS.

Just spotted you told me to say NO for PW if more than 16 hours. Yes I did that, and still got NOTHING at the end apart from full HB.

Not even any CTB!

thanks

Anubis_2

TryingToWork wrote: »

I now have put 16-29 hours but get NOTHING apart from HB!

I'm obviously doing something seriously wrong. Maybe it's because I am still putting in £100. But in month one, £100 is optimistic! - I already have costs (web design, domains, website hosting etc), but no earnings, so I have making a loss for several months.

If I can't get a decent result for that figure of earnings, it would be foolish to start work.

Or is it something else I am doing wrong? I put full long-term IB, DLA and no IS.

Just spotted you told me to say NO for PW if more than 16 hours. Yes I did that, and still got NOTHING at the end apart from full HB.

Not even any CTB!

thanks

Are you putting £100 pw week in? Or per month? If you are putting incomings in - do NOT count IB as incomings! Leave it off the form as you will not be entitled to IB if you are working 16 hours or more.

The only thing that needs to be ticked, is DLA.

If however, you want them to work it off the year before (which is what they normally do) you put your IB in the income from benefits field and do NOT put any earnings in.

It sounds like you are putting both in. IB will go when you work more than 16 hours, so will IS, so you either put it through with year before earnings (which is just IB unless you had other income in the last 12 months) OR you put through projected income ONLY (make this a realistic amount, are you sure you can earn £100 PROFIT per week?) and leave benefits off apart from DLA (but do not add DLA in the income from benefits feild.)

Remember you need to answer yes to the disability premium question if you only put 16 hours otherwise it will show you are entitled to ZERO WTC.

Check that you fullfill the criteria for the disability element FIRST .http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/tctmanual/tctm02501.htm

TryingToWork

Anubis wrote: »

Are you putting £100 pw week in? Or per month? If you are putting incomings in - do NOT count IB as incomings! Leave it off the form as you will not be entitled to IB if you are working 16 hours or more.

The only thing that needs to be ticked, is DLA.

If however, you want them to work it off the year before (which is what they normally do) you put your IB in the income from benefits field and do NOT put any earnings in.

It sounds like you are putting both in. IB will go when you work more than 16 hours, so will IS, so you either put it through with year before earnings (which is just IB unless you had other income in the last 12 months) OR you put through projected income ONLY (make this a realistic amount, are you sure you can earn £100 PROFIT per week?) and leave benefits off apart from DLA (but do not add DLA in the income from benefits feild.)

Remember you need to answer yes to the disability premium question if you only put 16 hours otherwise it will show you are entitled to ZERO WTC.

Check that you fullfill the criteria for the disability element

Hi thanks,

I thought you said ealier to include IB but not IS so that's what I did.

I have used the tool about 22 times so I must have done every combination and I still don't know how to generate WTC.

Yes I ticked Yes to the disability premium because I was later to input IB and DLA.

No not £100 a week - £100 a MONTH. Did I say week before? sorry.

Sorry I've read your last post 3 times and I'm still confused - maybe because I'm tired. I will look at it again tomorrow.

Thanks, I really appreciate your help

Anubis_2

Normally, WTC work off the year before. So, in your case, they will want to know your taxable incomings for April 2011 to April 2012.

If you haven't done any work in that timescale, (and lets say you havent to make things easier to explain) you will put IB in as it is a taxable benefit, and you will need to input the amount in the income from benefits field NOT income from earnings. In all the other income fields you will input 0 as you have not done any work. (Unless you have a stash of money somewhere, or are getting income from any other means apart from benefits.)

You will tick DLA too, but not add that amount in any income field. You will NOT tick IS because it's not taxable. So forget about putting IS in altogether, do not tick it, do not include it. If you do include IS you will get ZERO WTC, so forget about IS when doing these calculators.

IF however, you want to work out your WTC on projected earnings, you will not tick any benefits apart from DLA as your benefits will cease. No IS, no IB, do not tick any of these.

You only put in your income amount from SE in the income field, and all other income left as 0, including income from benefits. So in this scenario, the only benefit you tick is DLA and the only income amount input is your projected earnings of 25pw. So, according to the calculator you are earning 25pw as DLA is not counted in WTC.

So, you have to decide which way you want to do it.

TryingToWork

Anubis wrote: »

Normally, WTC work off the year before. So, in your case, they will want to know your taxable incomings for April 2011 to April 2012.

If you haven't done any work in that timescale, (and lets say you havent to make things easier to explain) you will put IB in as it is a taxable benefit, and you will need to input the amount in the income from benefits field NOT income from earnings. In all the other income fields you will input 0 as you have not done any work. (Unless you have a stash of money somewhere, or are getting income from any other means apart from benefits.)

You will tick DLA too, but not add that amount in any income field. You will NOT tick IS because it's not taxable. So forget about putting IS in altogether, do not tick it, do not include it. If you do include IS you will get ZERO WTC, so forget about IS when doing these calculators.

IF however, you want to work out your WTC on projected earnings, you will not tick any benefits apart from DLA as your benefits will cease. No IS, no IB, do not tick any of these.

You only put in your income amount from SE in the income field, and all other income left as 0, including income from benefits. So in this scenario, the only benefit you tick is DLA and the only income amount input is your projected earnings of 25pw. So, according to the calculator you are earning 25pw as DLA is not counted in WTC.

So, you have to decide which way you want to do it.

Thanks I thought I had done each of those combinations for more and less than 16 hours, and still can't get a result for WTC.

I wonder if I am answering a different unexpected question wrong. Or else it's just me and I have not followed your instruction correctly.

I tried C+Pasting the details I put in - the summary ot gives you at the end - but it summarises too much! It doesn't even give the result either.

I think for visual people like me, they should have different colours for what people are elegible for, and stuff like the hours worked, such as:

1 - 15 hours
15 - 30 hours
30+ hours

...and from then on, the claimant only has to look at the text in their relevant colour.

Being dyslexic that would be a LOT easier for me. To be honest, all the text just resembles smallprint to me. You know that stuff everyone ignores, but signs anyway and hopes for the best!

Sorry I'm having such difficulty following your instruction. It seems you could not have explained it any better. If I can, I will try to put all my Q+As here if you have time to check them.

It could take a while as I will have to flit back and forth, and have abysmal short term memory so I won't remember your advice once I'm on the form page.

Anubis_2

If I am able to later, I will do a calculation for you and walk you through it.

TryingToWork

OK, sorry but I don't understand how the first scenario you mention (putting only my current benefits in and NO earnings) will tell me how much benefits I will get while earning £100 a month? (That's the only thing I want to find out!) I just don't get how that would tell me anything, but I have done it anyway (below).

I also still don't know whether I should be saying under 16 hours or over 16 hours for the 2nd scenario.

So for the 2nd exercise I put 15 hours.



First scenario you mention - going off the LAST 12 months:

p1
Are you single or in a couple? Single
Number of children under 20 (that you receive Child Benefit for)? None
Does anyone else share your home? No
Council Tax bill (AFTER any discounts eg, disability, single person)
£1199.80 pa
What is your housing status? Tenant - social + voluntary
Are you in hospital/residential care, a prisoner, on strike, living abroad or a full-time student? No
Are you a British or Irish citizen? Yes
Calculation Year: 2012-13
I live in: Wales


p2

Would you like to calculate your state pension age? No
What is your age? 44

Hours worked per week 0
Do you claim disability or sickness benefits - Attendance Allowance, Disability Living Allowance, Incapacity Benefit, Employment and Support Allowance, Statutory Sick Pay, etc? Yes (is this the disability premium question you say I say Yes to?)
Are you ill or disabled but not claiming benefit? No

p3
Carer's Allowance help on Carer's Allowance No
Carer's Allowance value No

Jobseeker's Allowance (contribution-based)help on Jobseeker's Allowance (contribution-based) No
Jobseeker's Allowance (contribution-based) value No
Maternity Allowance or statutory maternity/ paternity/ adoption payhelp on Maternity Allowance or statutory maternity/ paternity/ adoption pay No
Maternity Allowance or statutory maternity/paternity/adoption pay value No
War Pension or War Widow(er)'s Pensionhelp on War pension or war widow(er)'s pension No
War pension or war widow(er)'s pension value No

Widowed Parent's/ Mother's Allowance, Widow's Pension or Bereavement Allowancehelp on Widowed Parent's/ Mother's Allowance, widow's pension or Bereavement Allowance No
Widowed Parent's/Mother's Allowance, widow's pension or Bereavement Allowance value
Disability or sickness benefits No
Disability Living Allowance - carehelp on Disability Living Allowance - care No??? is that right?
Disability Living Allowance - care Value No
Disability Living Allowance - mobilityhelp on Disability Living Allowance - mobility No
Disability Living Allowance - mobility Value No (I don't get why I'm leaving this blank)

"...and leave benefits off apart from DLA (but do not add DLA in the income from benefits feild.)"



Value help on Employment and Support Allowance (contribution based) None
Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit No
Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit Value None
Incapable of work for over 52 weeks Yes

Incapacity Benefit Value £105.05 pw

Occupational Sick Pay Value None
Registered blind within past six months No

Severe Disablement Allowance No
Statutory Sick Pay No


p4
Do you already claim out-of-work benefits? No
Which benefit do you intend to claim?** None

**(This last Q - I have been leaving it as the default (IS) as I put No in the above box. I thought by putting No there it devoided the 2nd Q, but I only just noticed the None in the dropdown, so that could have been what I was doing wrong).


p5

How much is your rent? £85 pw

Number of rent-free weeks 2


p6
INCOME

Select payment frequency: Monthly

Income from charity or voluntary sources? No
Pays towards upkeep of a student? No

Household capital over £6,000? No
Do you own property other than your current home? No



Income from sources not already mentioned Income from sources not already mentioned None



RESULT:

(zero IS
zero WTC)


Council Tax Benefit £1,161.22 £22.27 Your full Council Tax bill of £23.01 per week will be reduced to £0.74 per week because of your entitlement to Council Tax Benefit.
Housing Benefit £4,301.73 £82.50 Your full rent of £85.00 per week will be reduced by £82.50 per week because of your entitlement to Housing Benefit. This means you will have to pay £2.50 each week.
Total Entitlements £5,462.95 £104.77 weekly




2nd scenario you mention - going from the NEXT 12 months while earning:

p1
Are you single or in a couple? Single
Number of children under 20 (that you receive Child Benefit for)? None
Does anyone else share your home? No
Council Tax bill (AFTER any discounts eg, disability, single person)
£1199.80 pa
What is your housing status? Tenant - social + voluntary
Are you in hospital/residential care, a prisoner, on strike, living abroad or a full-time student? No
Are you a British or Irish citizen? Yes
Calculation Year: 2012-13
I live in: Wales


p2

Would you like to calculate your state pension age? No
What is your age? 44

Hours worked per week 1-15
Do you claim disability or sickness benefits - Attendance Allowance, Disability Living Allowance, Incapacity Benefit, Employment and Support Allowance, Statutory Sick Pay, etc? Yes (is this the disability premium question you say I say Yes to?)
Are you ill or disabled but not claiming benefit? No

p3
Carer's Allowance help on Carer's Allowance No

Jobseeker's Allowance (contribution-based) No

Maternity Allowance or statutory maternity/ paternity/ adoption payhelp on Maternity

War Pension or War Widow(er)'s Pension

Widowed Parent's/ Mother's Allowance, Widow's Pension or Bereavement Allowance
Widowed Parent's/Mother's Allowance, widow's pension or Bereavement Allowance value
Disability or sickness benefits No
Disability Living Allowance - carehelp on Disability Living Allowance - care No??? is that right?
Disability Living Allowance - care Value No
Disability Living Allowance - mobilityhelp on Disability Living Allowance - mobility No
Disability Living Allowance - mobility Value No (I don't get why I'm leaving this blank)

"...and leave benefits off apart from DLA (but do not add DLA in the income from benefits feild.)"



Value help on Employment and Support Allowance (contribution based) None
Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit No
Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit Value None
Incapable of work for over 52 weeks Yes

Incapacity Benefit Value £105.05 pw

Occupational Sick Pay Value None
Registered blind within past six months No

Severe Disablement Allowance No
Statutory Sick Pay No


p4
Do you already claim out-of-work benefits? No
Which benefit do you intend to claim?** None

**(This last Q - I have been leaving it as the default (IS) as I put No in the above box. I thought by putting No there it devoided the 2nd Q, but I only just noticed the None in the dropdown, so that could have been what I was doing wrong).


p5

How much is your rent? £85 pw

Number of rent-free weeks 2


p6
INCOME

Select payment frequency: Monthly

Earnings before tax and national insurance:
£100.00 pm
Are these earnings from permitted work? No ???
Pension contributions £ 0
National Insurance status: 0
National Insurance status 0
contracted-in employee No
contracted-out employee No
self employed Yes
not liable for NICs No

Blind person's allowance? No


Income tax paid: £ 0
National Insurance paid £ 0
Net earnings after tax and National Insurance £ 100
Net earnings different from the figure above?
No

Are you a part-time fireman, coastguard or member of the TA? No


Do you work as a self-employed childminder?
No



Income from charity or voluntary sources? No
Pays towards upkeep of a student? No

Household capital over £6,000? No
Do you own property other than your current home? No



Income from sources not already mentioned None



RESULT:

Council Tax Benefit £1,199.80 £23.01 You should not have to pay Council Tax as you qualify for full Council Tax Benefit.
Housing Benefit £4,432.14 £85.00 You should not have to pay rent as you qualify for full Housing Benefit.
For more information on what qualifies see eligible rent for Housing Benefit
Total Entitlements £5,631.94 £108.01 weekly

So what have I done wrong?


If I have done it worng again and cannot be put right with just one or two easy amendments, please don't spend any more time on this. This is due to my difficulties understanding, and why I need a support worker. Thanks for your time though. You have all been very kind.

Thanks

Anubis_2

Ok - you MUST INPUT 16 hours if you want to find out how much working tax credits. Inputting 15 will always give you a zero rate of WTC.

You have got the DLA question wrong and therefore your entitlement to the disability element of WTC will be lost, and in addition, it will show ZERO WTC for TWO REASONS:

1. You are inputting UNDER 16 hours

2. Even when you DO input 16 hours, to the calculator you don't have a disability because you are putting no to DLA - therefore anyone single without a disability has to work 30 hours to get WTC - this explains why you keep getting zero.

Some calcs have an "income from benefits" field that you fill in AFTER you have ticked DLA - so DLA should be ticked, but is not counted as income.

Tell me which calc you are using? I will do it and show you.

You have to make a choice. You have to decide first if you want to do under 16 hours and do permitted work. In which case the calculator will show you any WTC, OR you have to decide if you want to do 16 hours or more and come off benefits and claim WTC. in which case the calculator can show you. Which do you want to do?

Anubis_2

PART 1 is fine

PART 2

******Hours worked per week 16-29. PUT 16-29 here, NOT the zero you have input****

Do you claim disability or sickness benefits - Attendance Allowance, Disability Living Allowance, Incapacity Benefit, Employment and Support Allowance, Statutory Sick Pay, etc? Yes

Are you ill or disabled but not claiming benefit? No

p3
YOU NEED TO PUT YES to both DLA if you receive both AND input the rates. (This was not the income field I was referring to)

Disability Living Allowance - care YES
Disability Living Allowance - Care Value YES do not leave blank
Disability Living Allowance - mobility YES
Disability Living Allowance - mobility Value YES do not leave blank

Incapacity Benefit - YES and amount
Incapable of work for 52 weeks - YES (have you been claiming incapacity for 52 weeks or more?)

STEP 4 - PLEASE CONFIRM YOU ARE Eligible to claim the disability element of WTC - YES (this question will not have arisen previously for you as you filled pt 3 in incorrectly)

STEP 5 - enter start date

STEP 6 - INCOME FOR TAX CREDITS (these are the income fields I was referring to)
Set the term to WEEKLY
Earnings .... ZERO (as your tax benefits are being worked out on the year previous so benefits only)

Pension and Gift aid Zero

*social security benefit income* (This is the income field I refer to for DLA etc, you do NOT put DLA in here, only your incapacity benefit (remember its set to weekly so input your weekly incapacity benefit amount EXCLUDING IS - if your claim started BEFORE 1995 it states not to put the amount in.

I put 99.15 in as I am presuming that's what you get?

With all the above your estimated WTC is 87.78 pw, 36.68 HB and 8.71 CT.

All the above assumes you have NOT worked in the last 52 weeks and you are on LRC and LRM and your IB excluding IS is 99.15 and you are entitled to the disability element of WTC ( please read up on the previous link I posted regarding this)

This is how your first years working tax credit will be worked out based in your benefits the year previous.

If you want them to work out for the current year, then you leave IB out of the questions and you fill the income you are expecting from working in the income field instead and leave the income from social security benefits BLANK and do not tick you receive IB in part 2 as your IB will be stopped as soon as you start working 16 hours or more.

DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE YOUR PROJECTED INCOME otherwise you may have an overpayment.

Also, I strongly recommend you give the WTC helpline a ring or seek advice to check over this as calculators are only an estimate and I may have got something wrong. So please seek advice.

If anyone else proficient in WTC can advise the above is the correct input based on workings for benefits the previous year I would appreciate it.

TryingToWork

Anubis wrote: »

Ok - you MUST INPUT 16 hours if you want to find out how much working tax credits. Inputting 15 will always give you a zero rate of WTC.

You have got the DLA question wrong and therefore your entitlement to the disability element of WTC will be lost, and in addition, it will show ZERO WTC for TWO REASONS:

1. You are inputting UNDER 16 hours

2. Even when you DO input 16 hours, to the calculator you don't have a disability because you are putting no to DLA - therefore anyone single without a disability has to work 30 hours to get WTC - this explains why you keep getting zero.

I put DLA in the 2nd scenario, but not in the 1st. Sorry I still don't underastand why you said not in the first and why no earnings.

Anubis wrote: »

Some calcs have an "income from benefits" field that you fill in AFTER you have ticked DLA - so DLA should be ticked, but is not counted as income.

which part sorry?

Anubis wrote: »

You have to make a choice. You have to decide first if you want to do under 16 hours and do permitted work. In which case the calculator will show you any WTC, OR you have to decide if you want to do 16 hours or more and come off benefits and claim WTC. in which case the calculator can show you. Which do you want to do?

Is 20 hours ok? Which number of hours will have me better finacially?

I can't do the form anymore tonight. I have a migraine sorry

Anubis wrote: »

PART 2

****** Hours worked per week 16-29. PUT 16-29 here, NOT the zero you have input****

I put 1-15 hours in part 2 and zero in part 1. Which part did you mean, 1 or 2?

Anubis wrote: »

Tell me which calc you are using? I will do it and show you.

I used the one on this site (which is the same Turn2us tool) as as it kept my info once I had to go back and start again.

Rather than tell me in sentences, (which I am confused about, regarding part 1 or 2), are you able to copy and paste my report of the whole Q+A and swap the wrong answers with the right answers please?

Sorry but that is the only way I will uinderstand what you mean, thanks a lot.

Don't worry if you can't. You have been very helfpul already.

thanks