MSE News: Half a million could lose disability benefits

clemmatis

DomRavioli wrote: »

I receive DLA, and I am more than happy to be assessed or re-assessed. The way I see it is that I have nothing to hide, and would give the world not to be disabled.

Good, because, as a DLA recipient, you can be.

BigAunty

rogerblack wrote: »

The 30% figure is a headline-grabbing lie.

Yes, DLA has increased 30% in the last years.
This is due to several factors - not widespread fraud - which is estimated by the DWP at 0.5% - but a combination of demographic shifts and other things.

The population is getting older.
People entitled to DLA at age 65 are not reassessed.
Young people with severe disabilities are surviving longer.

It's only working age claimants that will be affected by PIP.
The rise in working age claimants is 16%.

I wasn't aware of the sudden spike in DLA claimants but I expect some of this has been due to the switch from IB to ESA which can be time-limited and means tested unlike DLA. Just by making the on-flow to one benefit more difficult, I imagine it can create a knock on effect on others. After all, IB was seen as a benefit that had a significant on-flow when the govt tightened up the criteria for claiming JSA, introducing more conditionality to it, and some critics say IB was used to masssage unemployment figures for political reasons.

erose59

The DWP's own figures show that the fraud rate for DLA is 0.05% that's £60m.
JSA 4.1% that's £180m. Are the government targeting JSA? No.
Pension Credit 2.3% £190m. Is that being targeted? No.

The sick and the disabled are an easy target. Ministers like Ian Duncan Smith have waged a hate campaign of lies via the media to make the public believe that anyone on Incapacity Benefit or DLA is a fake, a scrounger, a liar. The figures though speak for themselves.
DLA is not an Out of work benefit it does actually help thousands of disabled people stay in work. The money helps them pay for taxi's to get them to work and other expenses they incur in order to stay in work.
The Free Car is a myth. People in receipt of DLA HRM can use that to lease a car from the charity Motability. In most cases you have to hand over all your HRM to lease the car and in some cases pay a non refundable payment for the car that best suits your needs. Getting a vehcile that can accommodate a wheelchair isn't easy and as these cars are often larger they have high non refundable payments which the disabled person has to finanace themselves. If you need adaptions to the car there is again an additional cost involved which you may be able to get help with from the charity. You still have to put fuel in the car like everyone else and the lease is for a 3 year period. As was stated in an earlier post the largest number of people in receipt of DLA are over 65 and will not be affected by the 20% cut in the numbers of people who are likey to qualify for PIP. But no one in government will admit that thousand of working disabled people could find themselves having to give up work because they will have no support when their DLA is taken from them. So where is the saving? These people will join the millions claiming JSA or ESA. At what extra cost ? They will have to claim housing benefit and council tax benefit. At what cost? So where are the savings? DLA is not perfect but claimants can be called for reassesment at anytime. Those with long term degenerative conditions are never going to get better and they are getting older too. Why haven'y the bankers been made to pay for their mistakes, why have they got away with bringing half the world to it's knees? Ask that question of your MP and remember anyone can be struck down my illness or and accident and become disabled for life. How would you cope?

BigAunty

Better_Days wrote: »

DLA fraud is very low, well under 1% according to the DWP. So if the government wishes to save 20% it will have to change the criteria for the mobility and care awards.

Changing the criteria does not mean that 20% of current claims are fraudulent. It simply means that after the goalposts have been moved 20% fewer people with physical and mental health disabilities will qualify for DLA/PIP.

...

I agree that any focus on DLA fraud is a distortion of the reason why PIP is being introduced. The same things you mention - a change of criteria which will inevitably drive down claimant numbers - took place with the scrapping of IB and transition to ESA.

It wasn't that the govt said x% of IB claimants were lying or that it was spectacularly open to abuse, more that the focus would be on capabilities to see what a person could do rather than saying that a claimant was totally incapacitated from any type of employment. So yes, goal post moving.

Obviously it feels very personal to anyone on IB or DLA that don't make the transition to ESA or PIP who feels their condition hasn't changed but that societies attitude to them has.

krisskross

rogerblack wrote: »

There is of course the slight problem with this.
If you're going to assess care costs reasonably required to allow them to cope with their disability, this can considerably exceed current awards.

If someone is adjudged to require 24 hour care by DLA - they are paid 70 quid a week or so.

This falls somewhat short of the 2000 or so that it'd cost to employ staff at agency rates.

What about all the people who claim HRC but have none of their needs met by anyone? All the people who claim on the basis that they have substantial care needs both day and night yet seem to manage without any help?

Someone not working can also claim up to an extra £50 or so a week on the back of a medium or high rate DLA award.

The threat people use about DLA is that a care home would cost a lot more however I wonder if it would not be cheaper for the disabled person to live in the care home everyone says would cost thousands and let the rest of the family work and support themselves. I realise no one would actually want this but be careful how often you say it. Someone might actually look into the feasibility and cost and see it could be possible and perhaps cheaper than the present system.

clemmatis

krisskross wrote: »

What about all the people who claim HRC but have none of their needs met by anyone? All the people who claim on the basis that they have substantial care needs both day and night yet seem to manage without any help?

Someone not working can also claim up to an extra £50 or so a week on the back of a medium or high rate DLA award.

The threat people use about DLA is that a care home would cost a lot more however I wonder if it would not be cheaper for the disabled person to live in the care home everyone says would cost thousands and let the rest of the family work and support themselves. I realise no one would actually want this but be careful how often you say it. Someone might actually look into the feasibility and cost and see it could be possible and perhaps cheaper than the present system.

The maximum care rate for DLA, High Rate Care, High Rate, is £77.45 a week. As for "everyone says would cost thousands", according to AgeUK, the average cost of a care home is £500 a week, of a nursing home, £700. And as for "the rest of the family", IME that's one person, currently paid at most, Carer's Allowance. If they got a job, would their taxes really amount to more than the difference between the care home fees and DLA Care/AA +Carer's Allowance?

And as for

What about all the people who claim HRC but have none of their needs met by anyone?

I'd have thought you could at least try to have some compassion for people in this situation.

Weary_soul

BigAunty wrote: »

I agree that any focus on DLA fraud is a distortion of the reason why PIP is being introduced. The same things you mention - a change of criteria which will inevitably drive down claimant numbers - took place with the scrapping of IB and transition to ESA.

It wasn't that the govt said x% of IB claimants were lying or that it was spectacularly open to abuse, more that the focus would be on capabilities to see what a person could do rather than saying that a claimant was totally incapacitated from any type of employment. So yes, goal post moving.

Obviously it feels very personal to anyone on IB or DLA that don't make the transition to ESA or PIP who feels their condition hasn't changed but that societies attitude to them has.

Oh dear god there's an understatement If ever I heard one.

I mean It's so bloody obvious whats going on here. It's just another big con, getting the public to support the incredible rubbish/lies that the government spin doctors are putting out there. It happened when IB was made into ESA and it's going to happen with this.

It's not about helping anyone. I don't get why people even believe that. It's only about saving money and throwing as many people off any kind of benefits as possible.

Once again punishing the poor and sick and unemployed and rewarding the rich and the damn banks.

Oh and of course dishing out tasty little contracts to private companies to organise those appalling 'so called' medical's that they'll keep sending claimants to every five seconds.

Awful.

MissMoneypenny

krisskross wrote: »

What about all the people who claim HRC but have none of their needs met by anyone? .

clemmatis wrote: »

I'd have thought you could at least try to have some compassion for people in this situation.

krisskross seems to be making the very valid point that some people claim extra welfare because they insist they need this money to pay for their extra care; but then they don't use that money on care as they can manage without it.

chanz4

wathowl wrote: »

The D.W.P says that fraudulent claims for this benefit runat around 0.05% yet around 20% of the number of claimants will be cut from thebenefit, why? because call me Dave and his pals think any government spending is wrong, disabled people are an easy target, I like most of the people onD.L.A have been through at least one medical, all claimants GP's and consultants are sent a form to complete describing the claimants disability and how it affects them no one has been given a life time award since the90's your now given an award for an indefinate period I have reached the stage where I will have start dialysis in the next few weeks this along with my other major disabilities are all organic (simple blood tests prove all my disabilities) and like most people suffering from my disabilities it is well know how it affects us in the medical community, will this stop people losing their lifeline? No do I wish there was a miracle cure that would make me well again? Of course I do I would trade my benefits tomorrow for a cure, I work full time as a self-employed person as and when I am not sat in hospitals.

Take last week two full days waiting in hospital waiting rooms for treatment this week just one full day, next week five appointments to see different consultants, the week after admission to have my fistula done so that I can start dialysis, plus two further appointments to see consultants, then when I start my dialysis three half days a week to have the dialysis, plus at least two appointments for treatment for my other conditions per week the rest of the week is spent trying to earn a living, I lost £40.00 when they altered working tax credit last month, I would be around £38.00 a week better off if I stopped my self-employment and went back on benefits and now I live in fear of losing my D.L.A. which will mean I am housebound as my car would go we already know that the Invalidity benefit (I.V.B.) reviews have resulted in 100’s of thousands losing I.V.B. and that of the ones appealing around half of them win back their benefit on appeal only for them to be sent back for a ATOS review which again removes the benefit some people are on to their fourth review it’s like a war of attrition.



So yes we live in fear of a bungling like the ATOS medicals have been, we hear Duncan Smith talking about soldiers who have lost limbs inconflicts fighting for Queen and Country being told that if they have an artificial limb then they don’t need Mobility component of the D.L.A.

I am all for stopping fraud but we know that this governmentis not interested in fraud they are interested in cutting the total number ofclaimants by 20% while cutting the top rate of tax to around 14000 pepole by four hundred pouds a week, yes we are all in this together.

Not getting at you, but if you are self employed are you insured to use your car for business use?

wathowl

It’s a funny thing D.L.A. we had “call me Dave” quite rightly claimingD.L.A. for his disabled son Ivan even though he and his wife are millionaires,and bearing in mind as the leader of the opposition in 2010 he would have been paid£130,00 per year add to that his wife’s income which was estimated to be largerthan his, but still he needed the money from the state in the form as D.L.A.for his son, sadly his son has died, yet "call me Dave" knows howmuch it costs to cover the care needed to look after his son and even with hisincome he still relied on the state for the D.L.A. payments, I cannot envisage"call me Dave" claiming D.L.A. just cos he could, I am sure he wasnot a scrounger and really needed this money to help cover the costs of lookingafter his severely disabled son, yet here we find that the time is right tolook at all people of working age to see if they really are so severelydisabled that they need D.L.A. Will theD.W.P. accept evidence from the person’sconsultant, G.P, and care workers? No they will get people who have somelimited knowledge of health employed by ATOS or some similar firm to go througha tick list and then a medical of sorts and then after maybe less than one hourjudge how that person’s disability affects them.